Pakistan Air Force Pictures & Videos - VI

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Awesome photos, I really did hope that Pakistan Air Force would've gone for the J-10Cs. This aircraft has evolved incredibly fast and has a lot to offer, particularly to an Air Force like PAF. But with the impending arrival of Block-lll Thunders, who knows, we just might not have a requirement for such an aircraft. Now if there is any aircraft that Pakistan Air Force would have a legitimate need for and wouldn't be covered by JF-17 Thunder, are the Su-35 Flanker-Es. But that would be subject to availability of funds, approval of the Russian government and last but not least, indian meddling to sabotage this procurement, or lack there of. The Su-35 Flanker-E offers phenomenal capabilities, which Pakistan Air Force could do well with.

One of three scenarios will play out, either J-10CEs would be selected based incremental batch purchase through Chinese financing, or by some miracle Pakistan and Russia reach an agreement for Su-35s by way of concessions on CPEC involvement, or neither aircraft is selected and Block-lll Thunders go forward as planned without a Gen-4++ fighter to support it. Whichever way this goes, one thing is for certain, an F-16 purchase would not be figuring in Pakistan Air Force's future procurement program. And that is one huge relief for all Pakistanis!

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Posted · Report post

Awesome photos, I really did hope that Pakistan Air Force would've gone for the J-10Cs. This aircraft has evolved incredibly fast and has a lot to offer, particularly to an Air Force like PAF. But with the impending arrival of Block-lll Thunders, who knows, we just might not have a requirement for such an aircraft. Now if there is any aircraft that Pakistan Air Force would have a legitimate need for and wouldn't be covered by JF-17 Thunder, are the Su-35 Flanker-Es. But that would be subject to availability of funds, approval of the Russian government and last but not least, indian meddling to sabotage this procurement, or lack there of. The Su-35 Flanker-E offers phenomenal capabilities, which Pakistan Air Force could do well with.

One of three scenarios will play out, either J-10CEs would be selected based incremental batch purchase through Chinese financing, or by some miracle Pakistan and Russia reach an agreement for Su-35s by way of concessions on CPEC involvement, or neither aircraft is selected and Block-lll Thunders go forward as planned without a Gen-4++ fighter to support it. Whichever way this goes, one thing is for certain, an F-16 purchase would not be figuring in Pakistan Air Force's future procurement program. And that is one huge relief for all Pakistanis!

I'd say the best route is a Chinese aircraft, more so than the Su-35. With the J-10CE, at least we know that the integration of SD-10 and supersonic AShM such as the HD-1A wouldn't be a problem (unless there are weight limitations), but third-party weapons integration with the Russians is an unknown. They have every incentive to package their own AAM and there might be a limit to what they'd offer (so as to not anger India). 

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Posted · Report post

Chinese route is definitely the best route. Both US and Russia try to limit transfer of technology. With the Chinese (and the Turks) this is much less. 

From what I gathered from the NYT article, it seems China wants to make Pakistan a manufacturing hub for arms to be exported to Muslim countries. This way their influence will increase tremendously. Good quality, low price and no strings attached. Pakistan will ensure interoperability with western systems. US will be left scrambling, esp. if Trump does more damage. 

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If China's technology was at par with the Russians these rich-Arabs would have dropped the U.S for Arms like hot potatoes....it will take time.

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The only way an Su-35 Flanker-E acquisition by Pakistan Air Force would work, is where both countries (Russia and Pakistan) reach an agreement on setting up comprehensive MRO facilities for the aircraft, including engine maintenance and overhaul. For such an agreement to be considered, there are certain important factors which need to be addressed. Pakistan Air Force would have to find the money for it, either through favorable financing by Russians, or Saudis, or Chinese. Otherwise, a different route can be taken whereby Russia is offered exclusive partnership in CPEC (with the Chinese agreed to it) in exchange for the Su-35s. If such a concept is realized, then the question remains is one, would Pakistan Air Force go through all the trouble of establishing MRO facilities for the Flanker-Es and just buy 40 of them. Because such a set is only justifiable if there is an incremental procurement of Flanker-Es. Another thing to bear in mind, is that Pakistan Air Force hasn't ever operated Russian manufacturer fighter aircraft. And given the interest of not putting all of their proverbial eggs in one basket. It can be argued that Pakistan Air Force would benefit from have a limited but diverse fleet of three types of fighters in its inventory. America F-16s, Russian Su-35s and Sino-Pak JF-17 Thunders. Which is pretty unique in every respect. And in light of recent growing relations with Russia, it is only fitting to expand the military deals based on economic ones. An infusion of new type of combat aircraft is very much suited to Pakistan Air Force's doctrine. The Su-35s would truly unleash the true potential of Pakistan Air Force's fighter pilots. As it has done so far on the F-16s. But unlike the F-16s and it's manufacturing country, Russia would not be a sell out. If there is one thing Pakistan must recognize, it is that A Russia-Pakistan alliance is one which would match in integrity, to that Pakistan has with China. And even if for some reason the Su -35 deal doesn't pan out, there is ample opportunity for Pakistan to develop, enhance and grow deeper relationship with Russia on bilateral trade and defense.

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Posted · Report post

Don’t you think Pakistan has moved beyond MRO?  We now want deep ToT. Doubt Russia is the right partner there. Pakistan, Turkey and China make a good combination. 

Nasr, H Khan and Fahad L like this

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Yes I agree that ToT is what Pakistan Air Force ought to be gunning for. With the J-10CEs, this certainly would make a lot of sense, however, there is a very distinct possibility that Block-lll Thunders would have a close enough capability level to that of J-10CEs. The only advantage (nominal) would be a bit more range, but that's about it. 

In my view, the only time J-10CE acquisition by Pakistan Air Force would make any valuable sense, is where Pakistan gets technology transfer for WS-10 engines and to really nail down the argument for J-10s, would be TVN variant of WS-10 engines. Because I am sure that everyone here would agree, that the engine ToT is far more valuable than anything else Pakistan Air Force buys. Short of J-31s off the shelf, buy out, engines trump everything else. And if Project Azm is anything to go buy, ToT of WS-10s would enhance PAC's worth, phenomenally. 

You are absolutely correct about Russia not giving ToT of Su-35 Flanker-E to Pakistan. Why would they, when the Su-57 Frazors are forecasted to be an incremental production run, on a gradual pace. Flanker-E's are to Russia, as Raptors are to America, at the current time. I merely argued that if the Flanker-E is even considered, it would be worth the pursuit (at bare minimum) is for Pakistan and Russia to agree on comprehensive MRO facilities set up at Kamra or elsewhere. 

And if by some stroke of luck, J-10CE's sale does include full ToT, which includes WS-10 engines. Then Pakistan Air Force should tread cautiously, ensuring the new aircrafy acquisition and absorption of its technology, does not in any way hinder, slow down or compromise JF-17 Thunder production run. It is critical for Pakistan Air Force to achieve its set goals for Thunders, as this aircraft is to the backbone of the Air Force.

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Posted · Report post

If China's technology was at par with the Russians these rich-Arabs would have dropped the U.S for Arms like hot potatoes....it will take time.

​Using that argument, the Arabs would be buying Russian hardware instead of US. It has less to do with technological capability, and more about politics - the Arabs buy western hardware to strengthen their political leverage in Western capitals, especially Washington. A classic example of this is Qatar, which has ordered F-15s, Typhoons, and Rafales, which is ridiculous for such a small country. However, because Washington is less keen to share the F35 with the Arabs, they are now being forced to partner with the Russians for the fifth gen requirements.

FaisalK, Aziz, yasser and 1 other like this

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Posted · Report post

If China's technology was at par with the Russians these rich-Arabs would have dropped the U.S for Arms like hot potatoes....it will take time.

​Using that argument, the Arabs would be buying Russian hardware instead of US. It has less to do with technological capability, and more about politics - the Arabs buy western hardware to strengthen their political leverage in Western capitals, especially Washington. A classic example of this is Qatar, which has ordered F-15s, Typhoons, and Rafales, which is ridiculous for such a small country. However, because Washington is less keen to share the F35 with the Arabs, they are now being forced to partner with the Russians for the fifth gen requirements.

​I agree.  But I see US withdrawing from the world gradually.  So the arms supply has to change to Russia and China over the long term.  I believe China will not sell directly but will use Pakistan as its intermediary.  Pakistani arms industry is maturing and will likely have large export orders from the Middle East in the near future.

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If China's technology was at par with the Russians these rich-Arabs would have dropped the U.S for Arms like hot potatoes....it will take time.

​Using that argument, the Arabs would be buying Russian hardware instead of US. It has less to do with technological capability, and more about politics - the Arabs buy western hardware to strengthen their political leverage in Western capitals, especially Washington. A classic example of this is Qatar, which has ordered F-15s, Typhoons, and Rafales, which is ridiculous for such a small country. However, because Washington is less keen to share the F35 with the Arabs, they are now being forced to partner with the Russians for the fifth gen requirements.

​I agree.  But I see US withdrawing from the world gradually.  So the arms supply has to change to Russia and China over the long term.  I believe China will not sell directly but will use Pakistan as its intermediary.  Pakistani arms industry is maturing and will likely have large export orders from the Middle East in the near future.

​I don't think so;  one needs to read the remarks by Secretary Mattis on National Defense Strategy, they are moving in a robust and threatening manner. The U.S has become yet another defeated superpower of the century; the normal rehabilitation course for these types of rehabilitations are they return in a more aggressive posture. Secy Mattis said the following "We have no preordained right to victory on the battlefield" This is a very sobering point." Once someone cognitive of thwir short coming and is aware of the future threats that is a progress of exponential steps.

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Sea View pics from the IDEAS display practice sessions ( wasn't able to see the actual show)

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Nasr likes this

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Why cant i upload pictures here, I had JF-17 picture with dual rack Sd-10 attached to it.

Edited by Aliusman

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Posted · Report post

Why cant i upload pictures here, I had JF-17 picture with dual rack Sd-10 attached to it.

A very interesting photo: one could see on her right badge what types of aircrafts on both sides that were involved in the exercise.

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Why cant i upload pictures here, I had JF-17 picture with dual rack Sd-10 attached to it.

​Please PM the image to me

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