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PAF Related Discussion: Jan ~ Dec 2011

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Looks like days of 9 sqd being PAF's most pampered are over! :-)

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Looks like days of 9 sqd being PAF's most pampered are over! :-)

Interesting,

No 9 is PAF's oldest sqn and was flying Furies till 1962 when it was re-equipped with F-104s (was the last Sqn flying Furies, all others had moved to Sabres or Canberras). Post '71 it flew Mirage Vs and at sometime was also OCU for Mirages. In early 80s the most advanced Mirage variant was Mirage VPA2 and 3s flown by 8 Sqn and not the one flown by 9. This was true till F-16s came in, but the first squadron to re-equip with them was 11 sqn and not 9. It converted to F-16s later.

I would not say they were pampered but had rich traditions and a certain elan. To me their name 'Griffins' alone is enough to give them a certain air. It is a very unusual name for a PAF sqn and gives them a certain air. Tell me of another PAF sqn named after a mythical creature.

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It was nice to see most of the Block 52s with CFTs in today's 5 Sqn. induction ceremony at Jacobabad. A 4-ship flypast was led by a Mirage III leading 3 Block-52s.

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Interesting,

No 9 is PAF's oldest sqn and was flying Furies till 1962 when it was re-equipped with F-104s (was the last Sqn flying Furies, all others had moved to Sabres or Canberras). Post '71 it flew Mirage Vs and at sometime was also OCU for Mirages. In early 80s the most advanced Mirage variant was Mirage VPA2 and 3s flown by 8 Sqn and not the one flown by 9. This was true till F-16s came in, but the first squadron to re-equip with them was 11 sqn and not 9. It converted to F-16s later.

I would not say they were pampered but had rich traditions and a certain elan. To me their name 'Griffins' alone is enough to give them a certain air. It is a very unusual name for a PAF sqn and gives them a certain air. Tell me of another PAF sqn named after a mythical creature.

No doubt. 9 Sqn. is the most prestigious squadron in the PAF and most of the 5 Sqn. Block 52 pilots are former Griffins.

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So the 5 SQ has been relocated from Rafiqui to Shahbaz i.e. Rawalpindi to Jacobabad. What will be strategic implications?

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Very little. The Block 52s were always located at Shabaz. Raqiqui loses a squadron flying ancient Mirages IIIs. No big deal....

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One of the greatest implications is an increment in security of desert border (South Punjab and Sind belt). During 1971 Indo-Pak war, a Pakistan Army division led by Maj Gen Mustafa was badly mauled in this area by IAF due to the fact that air cover was absent (not possible or realistic because Shahbaz was not operational and Masroor based aircrafts didn’t have required endurance). Indians had a field day crippling the whole division. I believe that, if opted for, the second F-16 Blk 52+ squadron will also be stationed at Shahbaz. It will be pretty heavy punch.

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So the 5 SQ has been relocated from Rafiqui to Shahbaz i.e. Rawalpindi to Jacobabad. What will be strategic implications?

I have a few reservations about selecting Jacobabad as the site for your most valuable and potent multi-role squadrons (if we purchase another 18 Block 52s, they will also be stationed there and if we don't, your first MLU squadron will be stationed there) because Jacobabad is being equipped for two fighter squadrons. I won't go into the reasons why Jacobabad was chosen since that is now a moot point. However, if you're going to station your most valuable air assets in airconditioned HAS on a state-of-the-art airbase built virtually from scratch (smaller but more advanced than Sargodha) in a notoriously hot weather zone, which is nowhere near your vital points, then Sibi - 150 km deeper towards the northwest would have been a better location. It is situated in an enclave surrounded on three sides by mountains, which preclude a low-level surprise attack from three sides and you're roughly 300 km away from India, twice the distance than Jacobabad. IAF would think twice about attacking Sibi because, in addition to the Block 52s own point defence capabilities, nearby Samungli could also provide air cover. At Sibi, the Block 52s would be close enough to provide cover to the Pak Army in Thar Desert without exposing their base to the IAF.

As for Jacobabad, you could house two JF-17 multi-role squadrons there to tackle any Indian army and air force intrusions in the first instance.

Edited by RMS Azam

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Iran now may be a factor in Pakistani defence calculations

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Iran now may be a factor in Pakistani defence calculations

I don't think Iran is a military threat in the near future. Even so, Sibi is about 500 km from the nearest Iranian border, about 100 km further than the farthest PAF base to India, Samungli.

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Seems like the Chinese are pursuing a smaller scale KJ-2000 type arrangment of 3 AESA radars for their naval Y-7 AWACS, rather than the tandem AESA arrangment, as seen on the ZDK-03. Perhaps the PAF should have gone with this solution, given that it is fairly mature as the Chinese have been developing/using it for a while now.

Y-7 AESA being tested on Y-8 testbed:

http://cnair.top81.cn/gallery/Y-8AEW.jpg

The Y-7, similar to Haweye:

http://cnair.top81.cn/gallery/Y-7AWACS.jpg

Source:

http://cnair.top81.cn/Ka-31_Z-8AEW.htm

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Apologies if this has been posted before.

Not sure how accurate this is, but seems like the PAF are after more F-16s? No details on whether it's to excercise the options for the remaining 18 Block-52s or for surplus earlier models. Either way, not sure how they are going to afford them given the recent floods and the current state of the country, and I doubt the US would give additional aid for these, over and above the current support.

Scroll through to the update dated 01 March.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/51b-proposed-in-sales-upgrades-weapons-for-pakistans-f16s-02396/#new

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?channel=aerospacedaily&id=news/asd/2011/03/01/01.xml&headline=Pakistan%20Air%20Chief%20Outlines%20Procurement%20Plans

Edited by Buraq

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Any news on the induction of SPADA-2000 SAM? Were not they suppose to be inducted some where in 2010? But we have not heard about it, have we?

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Any news on the induction of SPADA-2000 SAM? Were not they suppose to be inducted some where in 2010? But we have not heard about it, have we?

Test firing took place last year. First of the 10 Batteries ordered were to be delivered last month. All the 10 batteries will be shipped by 2013

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For those of you who don't know this already, 17th March 2011 was the last working day of A-5 in PAF service.

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For those of you who don't know this already, 17th March 2011 was the last working day of A-5 in PAF service.

Any idea what is going to happen with the planes and the F6 trainers used for the training? Surely one for the museum in Karachi but there are more then a few... I hope that western museum (UK) will get one cause it is not that much known here.

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F-6 variants from 1966-2011 in PAF service. Sterling service.

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Any idea what is going to happen with the planes and the F6 trainers used for the training? Surely one for the museum in Karachi but there are more then a few... I hope that western museum (UK) will get one cause it is not that much known here.

The lucky ones will end up gate guardians on some PAF bases. The ones that are a bit unlucky would end up as public attractions in various city roundabouts and children parks. The ones that are really unlucky will be sold to scrap dealers in Peshawar and might end up on our trucks as part of their bling-bling makeover.

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For those of you who don't know this already, 17th March 2011 was the last working day of A-5 in PAF service.

But I guess no one reported about re-equipping of second squadron with JF-17. Any news about it?

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wounder what the PLAAF has come up with?

PAF-PLAAF undertaking joint exercise - Shaheen-1

Updated at: 1804 PST, Friday, March 18, 2011

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan Air Force (PAF) and Chinese Air Force (PLAAF) are undertaking a joint Air Exercise these days in Pakistan code-named "Shaheen-1".

For the purpose, a contingent of Chinese PLA Air Force comprising combat aircraft, pilots and technicians have arrived at an operational Base of PAF.

The exercise has been designed to share mutual experiences, hone professional skills and accrue maximum benefits from the expertise of the two Air Forces.

Pakistan and China have historically enjoyed strong bilateral friendly relations. This is the first time ever that a contingent of Chinese Air Force has been participating in an operational exercise in Pakistan.

This visit coincides with the celebration of year 2011 as the "Year of Pakistan-China Friendship".

http://www.geo.tv/3-18-2011/79486.htm

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For those of you who don't know this already, 17th March 2011 was the last working day of A-5 in PAF service.

Thank God and about time. The A-5 was an obsolete and hideous-looking aircraft, which the PAF was constrained to buy "to fill in numbers" at a desperate time because there was no alternative.

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It may not have been very modern, but it looked very sleek. I cannot understand how you can say it was hideous. A PAF two seat Block 52 fully armed with CFTs and bombs is hideous, not a unarmed sleek A-5! :-)

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Thank God and about time. The A-5 was an obsolete and hideous-looking aircraft, which the PAF was constrained to buy "to fill in numbers" at a desperate time because there was no alternative.

Personal opinion. The Fantan can produce the most amazing gun actions. Lot better then other planes in PAF service. CAS planes are often typical designs. Take A10, SU25 etc.

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A-5 Was a flying coffin, or at least that was its nickname in PAF. Pilots who had to fly it generally hated it and are glad to see the last of it.

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