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PAF Related Discussion: Jan ~ Dec 2011

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I think the Mirage one of the most beautiful aircraft I have ever seen. And I have seen many. Even little hidden musea and up to AMARC... Friends of me know that if a Mirage 3/5 is near me I am no longer able to talk. I simply love that plane. But let us move on from who and why escorted Chinese PM. It is symbolic and the JF17 was part of that... I could not have expected that it wouldn't be part of the escort. Escorting with US planes a chinese president is probably a safety and symbolic issue. You do not want Chinese VVIP plane to be scanned by US planes. The Chinese would prefer not to be scanned. Case closed. The Mirage is a plane that was seriously important for Pakistan. Like the F6 (which is the survival for Pakistan for decades) it did and does its job superb. Maybe old or simple but like the ISraeli we know our planes like no other and I would bet that it can do the job even today. Why else would we send our Mirages to Jordan for training? Why else would we upgrade them with IFR. Why else would it is it armed with Ra'ad... Majestic

Nice one Munir! You've got me all nostalgic about the Mirages now, that unmistakable 'Hum' of an approaching Mirage on a landing circuit, the huge turning circle, and one of the loudest take-offs of any aircraft that I have heard (including an RAAF F-111 recently) and seen from the hill-top at Kamra with my Rs.20 binoculars after school. Those were the days...

Edited by Usman A.

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A great interview with AVM Niaz Hussain (DCAS-Engg). In all of the threads about PAF, these true, unsung officers and airmen of the PAF get left behind, even though they perform as vital a job as the air crews. Very good technical insights and assessments of our capabilities:

Q 1: In a recent interview with Defence Journal, the Air Chief had stated that ‘Air Power is pivotal to the defence of Pakistan. It is vital for the success of defence strategy and national security.’ How do you envisage the role of the Engineering Branch in attaining this vital task of PAF ?

A: The Engineering Branch’s ambit of work is fairly extensive, and encompasses the maintenance and upkeep of all aircraft in the PAF’s inventory, the air defence network, automation system, munitions and missiles systems, ground-based electronic and navigational equipment, mechanical transport, both specialist and common user, and all supply and logistics functions including spares procurement, stocking and provisioning. We, therefore, bear a heavy responsibility and are well aware of it in ensuring the operational preparedness of the PAF to meet any eventuality. Basically, I envisage the role of the Engineering Branch as continuously maintaining and ensuring enhanced operational preparedness through two means : First, maximum availability and serviceability of all our weapon systems and assets, i.e. combat and transport aircraft, air defence assets, ground support equipment, alternate mission equipment, etc. And second, ensuring the highest operational reliability of these weapon systems, to certify mission accomplishment.

Our base line for serviceable and reliability of our weapon system is high and, as far as I know, it is comparable or even better than contemporary air forces in the West. And, definitely far better than other regional air forces. These base line figures that we have set ourselves, for weapon system serviceability and reliability, are not just theoretical figures. They are regularly verified through operational exercises and other contingencies, and have stood the test of time.

Q 2: With the tilting of the balance of air power heavily in favour of IAF, how do PAF’s engineers plan to offset some of the numerical and qualitative edge of the adversary ?

A: Basically, we plan a work towards offsetting the adversary’s numerical advantage through better and quality training, and superior maintenance practices. The idea is to preserve our assets to the maximum, and ensure their operational reliability through a band of quality trained personnel.

The emphasis is on all aspects of training from abinitio training to specialisation, continuous and refresher training. The complete spectrum is addressed by specifically examining the requirement and then tailoring courses to meet all training divisions.

We also firmly believe in the dictum of being perpetually prepared for operations. This means ensuring the timely accomplishment of all safety and operational modifications throughout the life cycle of our assets. The prime goal is preserving our assets by good flight and ground safety practices. Our continuous efforts are aimed at reducing our accident rate from the present figure of 1.37 to 1, or below, per 10,000 flying hours. This programme is jointly conducted by the Operations and Engineering branches and is given the highest priority by the Air Staff. I must, however, clarify that our emphasis on flight safety in no way undermines our programmes of operational preparedness.

To retain the qualitative edge, the Engineering Branch undertakes periodic upgrading of our weapon systems based on operational requirements. These upgrades are meant to maintain relevance in contemporary air operations.

An important factor in partially offsetting the numerical advantage of the IAF is achieving and sustaining higher mission rates with the same assets. We regularly train for this, both pilots and engineering personnel, and through our weapons loading and standardisation programmes constantly strive to achieve faster turnaround times. Through routine and regular time-limit exercises we ensure our technicians’ competence in this field, which are then periodically verified by the Inspector General who reports directly to the Chief of the Air Staff.

Q 3: You have mentioned that PAF offsets some of the numerical and qualitative edge of the adversary through better training and superior maintenance practices. Could you briefly touch upon the training system of PAF’s Engineers/Technicians and what opportunities are provided for higher studies and specialization ?

A: First, the officers. All officers in the engineering branch are graduates of the College of Aeronautical Engineering at the PAF Academy, Risalpur, which is affiliated to the National University of Science and Technology (NUST). Entrance to the college is governed by stiff selection criteria based on a competitive examination. The students (cadets) undergo a 31/2 years degree course, on successful completion of which they are awarded a Bachelor’s degree of engineering either in the field of avionics or aerospace. We are very proud of this institution which is of world repute, and has maintained its very high standards of education ever since its inception, 33 year ago.

After graduation and commissioning the young engineering officers go through a specific training programme lasting one year, which forms the basic building block for subsequent work in the branch. This training programme consists of specialised education, both theoretical and practical, at Field Training Detachments (FTDs) on a particular weapon system of the PAF, either at an operational flying Base or at the Air Defence School. Weapon system specialization at the FTDs (approx. three months) is followed by ‘On the Job Training’ (OJT) on the weapon system for another nine months. During this latter phase the engineering officer works under supervision and is coached on all aspects of maintenance and repair activities of that particular equipment or weapon systems. Additionally, officers are groomed in Management techniques through specialist courses and seminars conducted at leading institutions in the country like PIM, LUMS, PIQC, and our own CAE. Deployment on any weapon system mandatorily requires pre-qualification through that weapon system FTD. As a rule of thumb, officer will do engineering duties at a maximum of two different types of weapon before promotion to senior ranks __ an engineering officer specialises in his particular field.

Postgraduate engineering training is open to all officer of the branch, and as a rule, approx. 10% of all engineer officers undergo higher studies leading to postgraduate degrees. A competitive selection system is formulated for the purpose, and officers are sent for MS and Ph.D courses at universities in the UK, USA, China and now at NUST colleges in-country. All in all, therefore, the engineer officer in the PAF is a very qualified person suitably groomed and trained for specific engineering duties whether it be system maintenance, repairs/rebuild at depots or factories, research and development, and even instructional.

A similar training path is followed by the technicians at diploma level, and going into details on the subject would make this discourse very lengthy. The major difference is that whereas an officer may work on one or more weapon systems in his career, the technician is restricted to only one. That is, if a technician after abinitio technical training of 31/2 years is deployed on the F-16 weapon system (after necessary FTD training), he will work on the F-16s throughout his career in the Air Force. This ensures specialization and distinctive weapon system skills for the technicians. During the course of his career in the PAF which spans 25 years, the technician will also regularly undergo ‘continuation’ and ‘refresher’ training. In the latter programme, he spends two hours every week formally refreshing his working knowledge of the weapon system, within his own work centre. The idea is that every year each technician would have spent at least 3% of his available manhours on refresher training. Of course, during his career the technician undergoes other specialist training courses peculiar to his task, like non-destructive inspections, PME, structural repairs, etc.

Broadly speaking, the engineering officer and technician in the PAF are highly qualified and undergo specialised and higher training suited to a vibrant and dynamic service like the PAF. Learning new technologies and keeping abreast with technological developments is part of our business, so that whenever a new generation weapon system is inducted in the PAF or planned for, we are equal to the task and never found wanting. Examples are induction of our air defence network and automation system in the late 70s, and then the F-16 weapon system in the early 80s, which earned us the admiration and commendation of manufacturers abroad.

Q 4: Research and Development (R&D) and Indigenization are two very important consideration for a progressive air force. Is adequate weightage being given to these essential factors in PAF ?

A: Self reliance has been the keyword in the PAF ever since its formation over 50 years ago. Our peculiar circumstances have also dictated so. Therefore, deliberate planning towards this objective has been the underlying factor in all PAF programmes. The very fact that the PAF established its own College of Aeronautical Engineering in the mid 60s, and follow a very aggressive programme of higher specialised education is indicative of the weightage and importance given to this aspect. Over the years we have built up a nucleus of very professional and learned personnel who are now dedicated to career tracks in research and development. Specific R&D units in the fields of avionics, aerospace, ground electronics/radar and munitions exist in the PAF, which have proved their worth. The absence of any aviation industry in the private sector has also been a catalyst to spur us on in our self reliance programmes. Furthermore, lessons learnt post-’65 when the US government imposed embargoes and sanctions, and then again in the early Ô90s, has only proved us correct in following a very aggressive self reliance programme within the PAF. Self reliance can only come about with adequate technical expertise, (which we now have), positive R&D programmes (which are in place), and eventually indigenisation. To give you an example of the latter, the engineering branch held a seminar at Air Headquarters in April, 1998, which was chaired by the Chief of the Air Staff. The seminar reviewed all past, on-going and future indigenisation programmes, and it may please you to know that over the last 30 years, our indigenisation programmes have yielded a savings to the national exchequer of over Rs.2.5 billion and a recurring amount of US$.3.0 million annually ! Factual and verified.

I would like to emphasize, however, that PAF’s self-reliance programme is not oriented towards making an aircraft or a radar system, per se. That is neither our business nor vocation. Our aim has been to achieve self reliance in maintenance of our assets, and to reduce or offset dependence on beyond-country repairs. We do, however, sponsor indigenization of support equipment equipment, parts, and equipment of specific nature to meet our operational requirements.

Finally, to give you an idea of the weightage given to these factors of R&D and indigenisation, the CAS annually gives monetary awards to those officers and technicians who make major contributions in this field. This is in addition to CAS commendation certificates specifically awarded for the purpose.

Q 5: In 1990, various technical branches of PAF, namely the Maintenance, Electronics, Munitions and Supply were amalgamated into one main branch of Engineering. In this age of specialization, what was the rationale behind this move and how has this helped the PAF ?

A: At the outset, let me remove any misconception that by amalgamating its technical branches into one main engineering branch the PAF did away with specialization. Not so. We just got them to work together in a cohesive manner, unified in the common role of maintaining all assets, and to do away with any possible inter Ôbranch’ rivalries insofar as career tracks, promotions, etc. were concerned. As I have said earlier, specialization is still rigidly maintained up to the middle management level, and even after that, where necessary, permanent specialised tracks are adhered to.

Amalgamation was not an outcome of only the 90s. It was first studied for possible implementation in 1970, but then shelved because at that period of time only 10% of the officers in the PAF’s technical branches were graduate engineers. In 1990, the situation was reversed, when over 80% of them were graduate engineers. Amalgamation at this stage was possible because of the 40% common base in the technical training curriculums of avionics and aerospace engineers, and the fact that a wider spectrum of engineering officers would be available for various PAF engineering tasks with an eventual broader outlook. To give you a pertinent example, the munitions officer, even before amalgamation, was either an avionics or aerospace engineer. After commissioning he became a ‘munitions’ officer only after specialised weapons training, which he does today also, as do the aerospace or avionics engineers. Truly speaking, broad based amalgamation only takes place after 17/18 years of service, when the engineering officer moves to senior management levels.

Q 6: PAF’s engineers played a vital role in the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex achieving the distinction of being awarded the ISO-9000 certification. Could you elaborate on this achievement and also discuss how PAF keeps its engineers abreast with the latest developments in technology?

A: I have spoken at length on our specialised and post-graduate training programmes with a view to keep abreast of technological developments. Additionally, PAF engineers regularly interface with industry both at home and abroad, attend technical seminars, undergo specialist technological training, and even work at specialist R&D organization in the public/private sectors, all this to keep pace with technology, and to be ever ready to induct new generation systems, which we do every10/15 years, and never be taken by surprise insofar as technology is concerned.

Answering the first part of your question will be my pleasure. Because I was there, in the thick of it, when ISO-9000 certification was first awarded to one of the factories at PAC Kamra.

I was the Managing Director of the Mirage Rebuild Factory (MRF), and in December, 1993 decided to implement the ISO-9000 Quality Management System within the Factory. The reasons for doing so were many. Simply, it was to ensure that meeting a new enhanced requirement in the production of overhauled Mirage aircraft and Mirage engines did not compromise on quality of production.

The ISO-9000 series were generic standards for quality management and quality assurance and applied to all types of companies or organisations. Furthermore, the ISO-9000 series had become an internationally recognized common language for quality, aimed at increasing the confidence of customers in the quality system of their suppliers. What was more important, the ISO-9000 series established a complete system and documented it, so that if management changed at whatever level the new incumbents just had to read the procedures, follow them and go. Taking all these factors into consideration, an important reason for implementation was that it was a very strong motivational factor for the men and officers to incorporate an effective Quality Assurance Programme. At that period of time there was not a single company or organisation in Pakistan that had achieved ISO-9000 certification. (A host of them were striving for it). It set MRF a goal to reach, a prideful landmark to achieve. Once embarked on the programme we could not afford to fail. And in the bargain MRF would have established a viable Quality Assurance Programme. That, after all, was the end objective.

It was a long haul all the way from implementation to certification. But we did it. It was team work that accomplished a task many thought could never be done. Yes, it was PAF’s engineers at MRF that achieved this distinction, but it was not them alone. It was the combined work of the engineers and all the technicians at the Factory who laboured days and nights, over eighteen months, to become the first defence organisation in the country, and the seventh overall, to obtain international certification to the ISO-9000 system.

Giving any details of the implementation or certification process would take too long. Let it suffice to say, that August 1995 (when MRF achieved the historic certification) proved that PAF’s engineers and technicians stand up front in their commitment to excellence.

Q 7: In modern management principles, the concept of ‘Line and Staff Management’ clearly demarcates each cadre’s role. In PAF, the Combat pilots form the ‘Line’ while the rest form the ‘Staff’ or support elements. How does it work out practically in forging cohesion to mould the PAF in a single solid and effective fighting force ?

A: We have never experienced any cohesion problem. Each officer in the engineering branch recognises his own role and plays his part to achieve the overall mission. Of course, we are well aware of the fact that along with officers of other ground branches we form the support elements or ‘staff’ of the PAF. And we are proud of being part of the supporting elements of this great Air Force. As I had said earlier, we bear a great responsibility in ensuring the operational preparedness of the PAF, and we are well aware of it. We have a job to do, and we do it as a team. Let me give you an example which will help illustrate the cohesion that exists amongst all in the PAF both ‘line’ and ‘staff’ elements. We work and train in peace as we would work in times of exigencies or operations. The operational flying squadron is the single most important entity that exists in the PAF; an independent unit with in-built features of flexibility and mobility for operations. And yes, the squadron is composed of both line and staff elements. They are a team, and they work as a team, each proud to be the pillar of the unit. The important thing to remember is that we all recognise that each one is a professional in his own field, and we respect each other for that. Cohesion ? We know nothing else !

Everyone is imbibed with enthusiasm of (and for) his own task, with a nationalistic spirit and religious fervour to remain united and make the PAF a potent arm for defence of our homeland. We also offer thanks to Almighty Allah for the opportunities given where this cohesive spirit has been displayed.

Q 8: How do you compare PAF’s Engineering Branch with that of other contemporary air forces in the region, specially the IAF where the technical branches were recently involved in a mutiny ?

A: I am convinced we are the best. I do not say this just because I am a member of our own engineering branch. Facts and figures vindicate my assertion. We maintain over two dozen different weapon systems, both air and ground based, from 7/8 different countries, and we maintain them to very high standards. With particular reference to the IAF, I have stated earlier that to the best of my knowledge our base line for serviceability and reliability of all our weapon systems is much higher, and we meet the standards set.

The PAF’s engineering branch is constituted of highly educated and motivated officers. They are technically qualified for all levels of maintenance activities, and are bothered only about accomplishing their tasks with speed and efficiency. Frankly speaking, what happened to the engineering branch in the IAF, we do not see happening here. There is no reason for such stupidity. The PAF has tremendous welfare schemes for both in-service and retired officers, applied equally across the board to all branches. A very solid and practical system exists for redress of grievances, if any, and all officers get their due share whether it be welfare, awards, housing, etc. No distinction is made, with the result that officers are satisfied both mentally and materially. Each one has his economic needs well covered. The most important factor, however, is our in-built discipline, something we can never think of violating. To top it all, our religious and cultural teachings and values inhibit any such action. Let me conclude by saying that we are an educated, highly motivated and disciplined branch. We are, because Pakistan Air Force is ! And we will never forget it.

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Posted · Report post

Thanks for posting this. Engineers and Techs are the unsung heroes. Too much positive spin on Q7 though :)

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Red Flag, Green Flag, Jordan, UAE (with f22!), KSA, Maybe Turkey Anatolean Eagle... I am impressed what PAF chews while it moves from gen 3 to gen 4... Amazing.

I really hope to see them in Turkey 100 years airforce... I am going to be there... Booked!

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Interesting thing .Check out this http://img.fyjs.cn/Mon_1101/27_145194_11c5e39138ac5b7.jpg

here is a Y-8 aircarft with rotodome radar similar to Kj-2000 unlike the rotodome we saw previously which was also seen on PAF Zdk-03 you can check it here

http://img3.allvoices.com/thumbs/event/598/486/67024289-zdk.jpg

and

http://www.paffalcons.com/news/images/PAF%20ZDK-03%20AWACS%20aircraft.jpg

and most interesting thing is that the aircraft used for both radars is same i.e T0518

does this mean that PAF is switching from previous radar to that of Kj-2000

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Pilot-to-pilot link enables fielding success

Posted 1/10/2011 Updated 1/10/2011

by Chuck Paone

66th Air Base Group Public Affairs

1/10/2011 - HANSCOM AIR FORCE BASE, Mass. -- A team of former fighter pilots from the Electronic Systems Center here is continuing to make sure current fighter pilots - including both U.S. and allied forces - can operate the sophisticated communication network known as Link 16.

Link 16 takes data from multiple platforms, including Airborne Warning and Control System, Joint Surveillance Target Attack Radar System, and joint service platforms, and integrates it on one screen. It also accommodates thousands of different message types, allowing each to be sent, received and commonly formatted.

However, operators can't use it effectively without proper training, and that's where this highly mobile and experienced team comes in.

"The guys that we train are almost immediately eligible to go out to the area of responsibility and use Link 16 to do what they need to do," said Bill "Torch" Ramsay, a former F-15 pilot and member of ESC's Tactical Data Network Initial Fielding Support team. "We make sure they're doing everything right and that everything's being used the way [unit leaders] want it used."

And because the team is composed of former fighter pilots, their fellow pilots tend to be pretty receptive.

"We've been there, and we speak their language," Mr. Ramsay said. "It gives us credibility."

The team, once it completes training of an F-16 squadron at Sioux Falls, S.D., later this month, will have completed initial fielding training for all U.S. Block 40 and 50 F-16 Fighting Falcon units, which are the F-16 variants that employ Link 16. The team finished training all F-15 units several years ago.

They've also completed training a number of allied force units who have received Link 16 as part of Foreign Military Sales initiatives. The list of nations includes Taiwan, Poland, Greece and Saudi Arabia, where the team wrapped up a three-year effort in 2010. There they trained seven squadrons of F-15 pilots on four geographically dispersed bases and helped integrate their Link 16 ground stations into local networks.

"Combat employment interoperability with Saudi Arabia is important for any possible future conflicts in the region," said Bob "Slammer" Provost, the Saudi Arabia fielding team lead. "Fielding Link 16 capability on Saudi Arabia's entire F-15 fleet really bridged a gap in our ability to employ our respective Air Forces jointly."

Mr. Provost is also a former F-15 pilot, who during his Air Force career spent a year stationed at Riyadh Air Base in Saudi Arabia, something he said helped during this effort.

"Having flown Eagles with the Royal Saudi Air Force at all their fighter bases just a few years prior, understanding their Air Force culture and seeing a lot of familiar faces helped accelerate our teaching efforts," he said.

Having a fielding team capable of really getting operators up to speed on the equipment helps make the whole process work, said Mike Wabrek, the FMS case manager for the Saudi Link 16 upgrade. He noted that all FMS customers receive a lot of intensive training, with on-site courses provided by both the aircraft manufacturer and the U.S. Joint Forces Command. However, it's the final efforts of the fielding team that really gets coalition partner's fighter pilots comfortable using the data link operationally.

"I like to say that the Fielding Team is the light at the end of the tunnel," Mr. Wabrek said. "They provide that pilot-to-pilot interface - the no-kidding, this-is-what-you-need-to-know stuff - for day to day internal squadron training and real-world operations. Fighter pilots tend to speak in their own language, and it really helps to have these guys who speak that language go in there and work with them. It's an effective capstone to all the classroom training."

He noted that, since completing the initial Saudi fielding, he's received nothing but positive feedback about the efforts of the fielding team, from the initial fielding of the Royal Saudi Air Force's (RSAF) F-15 fleet, to joint-service/coalition training exercises such as Red Flag.

"The Saudi case called for fielding to take place until 2013, but the RSAF requested an acceleration of the program," Mr. Wabrek said. "In order to match the installation schedule, and as testament to the Fielding Team's professionalism and their ability to adjust, we finished that portion of the case two years ahead of schedule. It's been a huge success."

Several more fielding efforts related to FMS cases are on tap for the roving team this year, including Singapore, Pakistan and Morocco.

"We'll keep working hard to get everyone the training they need," said Mr. Ramsay. "We enjoy each opportunity we get, and we've had a lot of great opportunities over the years. We've made a real difference and had a lot of fun, too."

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Bolivia to receive combat aircraft from China:

La Paz, Bolivia, Wednesday, January 19, 2011: Bolivia is set to receive 6 Chinese-made combat aircraft to be used to fight drug trafficking, the head of the Bolivian Air Force said on Tuesday.

General Tito Gandarilla, the Air Force commander, told local journalists that the K-8 Karakorum jets are scheduled to be delivered in April, at a cost of US $ 58 million (S $ 74.5 million).

The aircraft, bought through a loan from China, will be the first of their kind for Bolivia, which currently has only training and freight aircraft.

Gen Gandarilla explained that the jets 'have a lifespan of 15 to 20 years' and have the ability to intercept illegal crafts that 'in Bolivian airspace without authorisation'. The aircraft will be used mainly around Cochabamba in central Bolivia, where there is heavy production of coca plants used to make cocaine.

The Bolivian government also plans to buy 10 Russian-built cargo helicopters for use by the police.

In 2008, President Evo Morales ordered the US Drug Enforcement Administration to leave after accusing it of having had a hand in political unrest and drug-trafficking in Bolivia. The US State Department has identified Bolivia as a major drug-transit or drug-producing country.

AFP & ST

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Are these people at Jang and Bharati just waking-up? I'm pretty sure the delivery was completed of all 100 missile in fall of 2010!

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We have even seen PAF C130 up there so it is extremely old news. We had even several discussions about MAA-1a and 1b. I am pretty sure JF17 has done something with it.

Anyway, for the record.

Delivery flights were certainly around 6 july 2010, 19 june 2010 and 14 may 2010... So easy to get that info.

Edited by Munir

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I think this tidbit in Jang came out after another wikileak report came out. The bharatis do this on a customary basis as a matter of habit. I too believe that all that were ordered are in Pakistan now.

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Up to late 2007 the production rate of the MAR-1 was reported to be a single example per month, implying production hadn't been set up. It couldn't have jumped up to a hundred in two unless Pakistan financed the entire operation.

Edited by BPacifist
@post 17: corrected my post, and added reference

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Up to late 2007 the production rate of the MAR-1 was reported to be a single example per year, implying production hadn't been set up. It couldn't have jumped up to a hundred in two unless Pakistan financed the entire operation.

One missile per year? you sure mate? thats very low, to a point where it will never be viable to offer it as an export!

ndad

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Pakistan orders DB-110 pods. news can be accessed here.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/01/24/352220/pakistan-orders-db-110-pods-for-f-16-fleet.html

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we have been talking about CFT's on our new F-16's but haven't seen them yet neither they were present when F-16's arrived

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we have been talking about CFT's on our new F-16's but haven't seen them yet neither they were present when F-16's arrived

CFT’s are mission specific. One day you might seem them in pictures/videos.

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I fail to understand why the dual 801 (first produced) is still in the USA for testing purpose. Testing a few months sounds logical but a few years for something that is produced in large numbers? And why only Pakistan?

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I fail to understand why the dual 801 (first produced) is still in the USA for testing purpose. Testing a few months sounds logical but a few years for something that is produced in large numbers? And why only Pakistan?

may be for pilot training?

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may be for pilot training?

I don't think so. We have more then a few pilots trained at Tucson and then returned to Pakistan. If we needed to train outside of Pakistan we could even go to Turkey.

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The F-16 is for trails and development. Most new F-16 customers maintain at least one bird at Fort Worth for a year or so.

Each F-16 model is unique and each customer will want to integrate or test different weapons and sub systems.

PAF has 6 F-16 Ds, we dont need to leave one at Fort Worth for training. We have ordered many weapons and systems and these will be tested and integrated at Fort Worth for testing purposes.

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