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Pak Navy related discussion: May - August 2010

143 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

New Zealand still use the Seaspirit.

To be honest US has alot of surplus examples and not many surplus SH-60s. I think choice may be either free SH-2s and pay for upgrade or having to pay for brand new SH-60s.

Anyway, is not PN chopper fleet becoming somewhat of a circus now? Aloutte 3, Z-9, Lynx, Sea King. Does such a small air arm need 4 different chopper types!?

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Posted · Report post

Re U-214 purchase by Pakistan, it islikely now. Have heard from reliable sourses that AZ killed it just few days before the deal was going to be signed with French in his sight. Well that front seems to have gone dry after leaks about Agosta deal and Sarkozy and Zardari tied to it.

No offence, but we have been hearing "from reliable sources" from various members on this deal for around 3 years now. I will belive it when I see it.

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Posted · Report post

Re U-214 purchase by Pakistan, it islikely now. Have heard from reliable sourses that AZ killed it just few days before the deal was going to be signed with French in his sight. Well that front seems to have gone dry after leaks about Agosta deal and Sarkozy and Zardari tied to it.

I don;t believe anything till Zardari is burried. How pathetic to see him with two of his daughters while he is shaking hands with the president of China. Why are those girls there...? If you look at the the Chinese you can see they are really not happy with him.

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Posted · Report post

Spot on Munir. Its almost shameful to watch. U can only imagine what goes through the head of the Chinese President...

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Posted · Report post

I don;t believe anything till Zardari is burried. How pathetic to see him with two of his daughters while he is shaking hands with the president of China. Why are those girls there...? If you look at the the Chinese you can see they are really not happy with him.

A chance for the chinese to meet the future leaders of pakistan perhaps?!

On a relevant note, lets hope that pshamim has heard right and the gernamn deal is on - we can only pray!

ndad

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Posted · Report post

Lynx have been in storage for the past several years.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Visits real purpose is a family holiday and seeing the Chinese President is just a side event.

Are we having trouble getting spare parts for the Lynx, are they normally armed or just for liaison activities ?

Edited by Farooq

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Posted · Report post

Why on earth did we buy the Lynxs? Also, are we phasing out the Aloutte IIIs yet?

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Posted · Report post

Would it not be better to replace the older versions with the chinese made choppers that are going to service the F22 frigates?

Would mean that they are easier to manage, maintain and there would be consistency!

ndad

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Posted (edited) · Report post

The US has offered Pakistan five refurbished SH-2I Super Seasprite maritime helicopters for $67 million.

Will these be Ex-Royal Australian Navy 's Super Seasprite helicopters or the ex-US Navy Seasprite

Edited by jawad

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Posted · Report post

Why on earth did we buy the Lynxs? Also, are we phasing out the Aloutte IIIs yet?

Been in storage for years with spares/maintenance a mjaor issue.

Aziz

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Posted · Report post

The US has offered Pakistan five refurbished SH-2I Super Seasprite maritime helicopters for $67 million.

For use on the Oliver Perry Class I presume.

Paid for from US aid so we can't complain and it's not as if our Navy helicopter fleet is state of the art any way.

Aziz

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Posted · Report post

They are most probably intended for OHPs.The issue is Kaman bought 11 of these from australia for 39.4 million and wants to sell it to Pakistan for 67 millions $ , thats 15.4 million a piece!

This is quite expensive!

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Posted · Report post

Three ex-RN Lynx were purchased in 1994 with an option of three more helicopters. Some quarters questioned this purchase seriously and the logical conclusion is that Adm. Mansoor and Zardari forced this deal, hence, kick-backs.

These Lynx were inducted in 222 Sqd but were never made operational.

Yes, spare-parts was the main issue.

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Posted · Report post

Paid for by US Funds, this is not a bad deal, if accepted, probably be the most advanced ASW Helo in PN. More then likely for OPH, this would indicate that PN is expected to get another 5/6 OPH, but likely short haul ship with capacity for single Helo. They may seems expensive, but Pak is not paying a dime in direct cost. Take it or leave, the indirect cost to Pak will still be there.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

No offence, but we have been hearing "from reliable sources" from various members on this deal for around 3 years now. I will belive it when I see it.

I really hope and pray that the news of U-214 killed by AZ is wrong and nd others are right.

you first heard about this deal 5 years ago when I posted it on Pakdef in 2005. This Post was based on the information from my sourse . Unfortunately it is the same sourse for this latest information. Go to archives and see for yourself.

pshamim10-03-2005, 03:29 PM

Friends,

Here is something else to ponder about- German submarines for Pakistan. Pak Navy is talking to very receptive Germans for assembling them in Pakistan. I do not know which submarines and whether they will be produced under license in Pakistan.

My source will not divulge any more informations.

Can someone with another source get more info.

http://www.pakdef.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-7402.html

I later identified the submarine to be U-214

stop being sarcastic and belittling my sourses. I have respect for every one here and never use language which may be construed as sarcastic or insulting.

Edited by pshamim

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Posted · Report post

Thank you Pshamim sahab for the news.It is indeed a good news and we hope PN signs the U214 deal asap.

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Posted · Report post

Thank you Pshamim sahab for the news.It is indeed a good news and we hope PN signs the U214 deal asap.

Nahin Bhai, the deal was killed by Zardari last year few days before it was signed. But then he also lost the opportunity to make money with French when the news came out that both he and Sarkozi were involved in all kinds of hanky panky with Agosta deal. After the french on going investigations, if there is a deal, it will be closely scrutinized by the French Courts denying Zardari the loot.

We do not need external enemies. We already have termites like Zardari who are eating up the country and Naoozo Billah on a destructive path for selfish reasons.

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Posted · Report post

I really hope and pray that the news of U-214 killed by AZ is wrong and nd others are right.

you first heard about this deal 5 years ago when I posted it on Pakdef in 2005. This Post was based on the information from my sourse . Unfortunately it is the same sourse for this latest information. Go to archives and see for yourself.

I later identified the submarine to be U-214

stop being sarcastic and belittling my sourses. I have respect for every one here and never use language which may be construed as sarcastic or insulting.

Sorry if you feel I was insulting. I did not mean to.

However, it is just that people often post such news on different matters and then when things do not materialise people ask why.

Often our forces have suprised us completely with aqquisitions or purchases we never heard about on this forum.

I am just saying, lets just wait till we got official confirmation.

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Posted · Report post

pshamim,

thanks for the info - can you just clarfiy if i'vegot this right:

1.Zardari killed the inintial deal

2. he wanted to go french and therefore the kickbacks

3. He couldnt go french because of the revelations about himand sarkozy

4. U214 is back on the table but not yet signed?

thanks

ndad

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Posted · Report post

With a number of NATO members experience severe pressure to reduce public expenditure in a bid to reduce their exposure to debt now may be an opportune time for the Pak military to look into acquiring platforms that are being retired prematurely in cost savings exercises. By no means should we look into introducing new systems but we can certainly look to bulk up our inventories. Germany is looking to dispose of a number of Sea Kings which I'm sure the PN could benefit from. I say forget the seasprites and go for more Z9's plus Seakings. We could actually get a number of units that could form an air assault element for the Marines/NSSG.

Germany Debates Steep Cuts in Aircraft, Ships

By Albrecht Müller

Published: 8 Jul 2010 12:22

Print Print | Print Email

BONN - According to an internal working paper, the German military might retire large numbers of planes, helicopters and ships as well as reduce buys of new weapons.

According to a July 7 report by the German newspaper Bild, this could save up to 9.3 billion euros ($11.7 billion) over the long run.

Related Topics

* Europe

* Air Warfare

* Land Warfare

* Naval Warfare

The 23-page paper, "Prioritization Material Investments - Recommended Actions," would affect all services and many major defense projects. However, a Defense Department spokesman said no decisions have been made.

"This paper is only a basis for upcoming discussions in the department and parliament," he said.

He pointed out that Defense Secretary Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg would reserve the right to amend the paper.

The paper itself suggests retiring 15 of 86 Transall transport planes immediately and reducing the planned purchase of its successor, the A400M. The paper also calls for the immediate retirement of 100 of 185 Tornado fighter jets and the scrapping of the last tranche of the Eurofighter, which contains 37 planes.

Defense Department experts also suggest scrapping the Tailaron UAV being developed by EADS in favor of immediate procurement of the Saateg AA medium-altitude, long-endurance UAV and an advanced version of the Heron UAV.

While the future of the tri-nation Medium Extended Air Defense System had been subject to discussion, the new paper does not suggest it be abandoned.

According to media reports, the Bundeswehr might also buy only 80 instead of 122 NH90 type helicopters and cut new tiger attack helicopter buys by half from 80 to 40.

The paper recommends the German Navy retire eight frigates, 10 fast-attack boats and 21 Sea King helicopters over the medium and long term. At the moment, it owns 21 Sea Kings, 10 fast-attack boats and 15 frigates. The number of new F125 expeditionary class frigates also could be reduced from four to three.

While ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems, one of the members of the consortium to build the F125, did not want to comment, an EADS spokesman said no decisions had been made.

"We are convinced the constructive dialogue will continue and that research and development will always be protected and considered," the spokesman said.

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Posted · Report post

Sultan, we need the Seaspirits or another US Navy chooper for the OHPs. Z9 will not integrate with US systems on these vessals.

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Posted · Report post

Of all three branches of the armed forces, the navy is on the path of getting very depended on American equipment.

Remembering is to what happened to Brooke & Garcia ships would be a good idea.

Presently the plan (estimated) is:

9 Orions

8 OHP-Class frigates

5 SH-2

3 Atlantics are slated to be replaced by Orions. The five Fokkers F-27 will remain. Six Tariq-class frigates are to be replaced by eight OHP-class frigates.

If we return to post-Aug 1990 days, if if things return, than PN aviation would be limping along with surface ships.

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