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#1
Munir

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A new topic with intresting developments in the near future...


'Syria president denies building nuclear reactor

DOHA (AFP) — Syrian President Bashar al-Assad denied in remarks published on Sunday that a site raided by Israel last year was a nuclear reactor under construction as charged by the United States.

Last September's Israeli air strike "hit a military site under construction, not a nuclear site as Israel and America claimed," Assad told the Qatari daily Al-Watan in an interview.

"Does it make sense that we would build a nuclear facility in the desert and not protect it with anti-aircraft defences?" he asked.

"A nuclear site exposed to (spy) satellites, in the heart of Syria and in an open space?'

The Syrians are still running with the 'no defences and no security' game. Any attempt at setting up layered fences and in-depth security around such a site would have brought it to the attention of the watching intelligence services. The Syrians took the risk, kept it as bland and unassuming as possible, but lost out in the end when the Israeli's took an extreme dislike to the building.

There is no such thing as Islamic, Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Jewish or Atheist science. It is the study the laws of God. Dr Abdus Salam.

 

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#2
Munir

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The reality is that Israel did not attack Syria... The reality is that F18 E/F went from Turkey to Syria and did the whole attack. Not that big suprise that USA is now activeky showing pics about the reactor...

Evidence that USA did it?

If you look careful at the fueltanks in Turkey then you will notive that only one plane carries those... And that plane is not in service with Israel. Any other nation? Nopes. How else would they have broken into Syrian defence systems? A... F18 electronic warfare version... Right on time!

Take a look at fueltanks
http://www.fas.org/m...ef-usnhornt.jpg

Growler for hacking
http://images.milita...ech_EA18G-1.jpg

The plane cannot fly extremely fast so that is the reason that the fueltanks landed pretty nice... A low flying plane that wanted to reduce drag and the fueltanks were empty after a long flight towards Syria... No refueling needed!

And how easy that is? Very. For the US it is a matter of simplicity to know everything the Turks do and the flight path is much easier then if Israeli would fly... Do notice that the reactor or whatever it was is in the northern area near Turkey.

Take a look at :


Do I mind. Frankly I am not h appy with any weapons in ME. But it is intresting to puzzle and find the truth.

There is no such thing as Islamic, Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Jewish or Atheist science. It is the study the laws of God. Dr Abdus Salam.

 

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#3
mHussain

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interesting insight, is that a direct match against the fuel tanks on the hornet? are they really different from the ones on the Israeli vipers?

#4
Munir

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The Viper has a different tail and has 2 small wings... Even the israeli bigger version. It surely is not the belly tank.
wing
http://hsfeatures.co.../F16D_PDS_5.jpg
belly
http://hsfeatures.co...F16D_PDS_10.jpg

The Eagle has a kind of pipe at the end.
http://www.af.mil/sh...F-5712B-029.jpg
Israeli
http://myweb.tiscali...by/Dcp_1897.jpg

F18c/d has the same model as F15

F18 E/F is the only aircraft that fits the format...
http://www.navy.mil/...a18/f18comp.gif

Since when does IDEAF fly F18 E/F? And why would US show those images so clearly? I would expect Israel doing that.

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#5
masood

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No, it would be a political nightmare for Turkey if the attack was staged from her territory, no country allows another coutry to launch a raid like this because the attacker (US) will leave after the mission and the host country is left with an antagonist govt in the neighborhood who has the option of striking back in a manner and time of their choosing. For example; Turkey has her hands full with the Kurds and it would not like Syria to step in and start helping them

This the same reason why India would not allow Israel to conduct a joint operatin against Pakistan (if there ever was such a plan). Israel would have been out of Pakistan's reach for retaliation but India would have been left to face Pakistan's retaliation in any form it could have chosen. India's nuclear facilities are not out of reach and I know for a fact that in '71 a mission was flown to hit India's nuclear research centers, the mission was called back when the planes were almost at the target area. My source was a first hand witness to the furious pilots :). But then Pakistan did not have to choose to hit India nuclear facilities, it can take care of India in a lot of other ways once the hostilities had been openly declared by an action like this.

#6
mHussain

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Munir, IF we can get a couple of experts to agree on what you are saying, we have a major news item in our hands!! Seriously major.

#7
Munir

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I did analyse the fueltanks for more then a few hours. Pretty sure about it. It is the best for Syria to think that Israel did it. USA is not going to tisk their name but the attack can only be done by the US acting from the see beneath Turkey and using southern Turkey Flight plan to attack unexpected. The fueltanks are the evidence...

There is no such thing as Islamic, Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Jewish or Atheist science. It is the study the laws of God. Dr Abdus Salam.

 

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#8
zia ul haq

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Asalamo-a-laikum.

The problem with the Syrians is that they themselves can't get the story straight.

So none of the parties are trusted.
____________
Bush defends Syria reactor claim
President George W Bush has defended the recent disclosure of intelligence by the US on suspected nuclear links between North Korea and Syria.

The move was meant as a "message" to the two states and also Iran, he said.

Last week, the White House briefed Congress on what it said was evidence that Syria had been building a secret nuclear reactor with North Korean help.

It presented intelligence seven months after Israel bombed the site. Syria said the US claim was "ridiculous".

The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) has criticised the US for withholding its intelligence.

'Message to Iran'

"We... wanted to advance certain policy objectives through the disclosure," President Bush said at a news conference in Washington.

"One would be to the North Koreans to make it abundantly clear that we may know more about you than you think.

"Then we have an interest in sending a message to Iran and the world, for that matter, about just how destabilising nuclear proliferation would be in the Middle East," Mr Bush said.

He added that the information had been withheld at first amid concerns about the risk of "confrontation" or "retaliation", without elaborating.

The site of the alleged reactor, said to be like one in North Korea, was bombed by Israel in 2007.

White House officials have said it was within weeks or months of completion.

Syrian officials have said the site that was bombed by Israel on 6 September 2007 was an unused military facility under construction.

Building on the site had stopped some time before the air strike, Damascus said.


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.u...cas/7374011.stm

Published: 2008/04/29 17:11:22 GMT

© BBC MMVIII
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#9
mHussain

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Anyone here can validate / add to / question Munir Bhai's claim on the fuel tanks?

#10
zia ul haq

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Asalamo-a-laikum.

Everything to date presented as evedence actually does point to the Syrians being caught with their pants down and having their fledgling niuclear programme set back.

I'm not saying it's true, just that that's what it points to. It remains to be seen what these guys say/find.
_________
Will Syrian site mystery be solved?

By Paul Reynolds
World affairs correspondent, BBC News website




UN nuclear weapons inspectors hope this weekend to begin solving the mystery of the Syrian building attacked by the Israelis last September and which, according to the CIA, was a nuclear reactor under construction.

However, since the structure has since been completely demolished, the evidence might be elusive.

The head of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), Mohamed ElBaradei, said: "It is doubtful we will find anything there now, assuming there was anything in the first place."



Mr ElBaradei has also cast doubt on Syria's ability to construct and run such a complex nuclear process.

"We have no evidence that Syria has the human resources that would allow it to carry out a large nuclear programme," he told al-Arabiya television.

He has also said that "no nuclear material" had been introduced at the site. So it is highly unlikely that there will be signs of any radioactivity there.

"Don't expect too much from this trip," said Mark Fitzpatrick, nuclear expert at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London. "But the IAEA has in the past found things that the hosts didn't expect, as in North Korea, so it's possible Syria will be surprised."

Relying on Syria

The inspectors do have photos provided by the Americans. These allegedly show the inside of the building and the suspected reactor. But a lot will also depend on what the Syrians say.


SEQUENCE OF EVENTS
6 Sept 2007: Israel bombs site in Syria
1 Oct: Syria's President Assad tells BBC site was military
24 Oct: New satellite images show site now bulldozed clear
24 April 2008: US claims Syrian site was nuclear reactor
22 June: IAEA due to visit Syria to investigate



Led by the IAEA chief inspector Olli Heinonen, the inspectors arrive in Syria on Sunday and will stay until Tuesday.

They could ask to see the architect's drawings for the building, and ask to question the architect and the construction engineers. They could ask to see rubble from the building, and take samples, especially from any surviving parts of the suspected nuclear reactor.

They will in any case ask the Syrians what the building was for, if it was not, as the Bush administration claimed, "a covert nuclear reactor in its eastern desert capable of producing plutonium". Plutonium can be used to construct a nuclear bomb.

"We are convinced, based on a variety of information, that North Korea assisted Syria's covert nuclear activities. We have good reason to believe that reactor, which was damaged beyond repair on 6 September of last year, was not intended for peaceful purposes," the White House said in April this year.

Syrian denials


Syria has said that the site, at al-Kibar, was a military building under construction and was not a nuclear facility.

Syrian President Bashar al-Assad has said that Syria does not have a nuclear weapons programme.

Syria is a member of the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), which bars it from making nuclear weapons.


The IAEA has in the past found things that the hosts didn't expect... so it's possible Syria will be surprised
Mark Fitzpatrick
IISS

A test of Syrian co-operation will be whether the inspectors gain access to three other sites. Syria has reportedly told other Arab countries that these are military bases not connected with the suspect site at al-Kibar.
One site is said by diplomatic sources, who spoke to the Associated Press news agency, to be suspected of having "equipment that can reprocess nuclear material into the fissile core of warheads".

Wider worries

Behind the IAEA visit, there is the wider issue of what to do if a country is suspected of trying to develop nuclear weapons secretly. The IAEA is furious that it was not alerted by Israel or the United States about evidence concerning the al-Kibar site before it was bombed. The IAEA thinks it could have established what was going on there.

The IAEA is anxious to preserve its leading role in the investigation of possible violations of the NPT.

The Americans are doubtful that the IAEA can do the job properly. It took US and British intelligence operations to get Libya to admit to secret nuclear activities and abandon them in 2003.

The Israelis have their own solutions. They bombed Iraq's nuclear plant in 1981 and did the same to the Syrian construction last year.

There is plenty of talk in Israel that at some stage Israel will decide to attack Iran's nuclear enrichment plant. The New York Times has reported that a major Israeli air exercise involving more than 100 F-15 and F-16 aircraft took place in early June and was apparently designed to develop long-range bombing techniques.

Paul.Reynolds-INTERNET@bbc.co.uk

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.u...ast/7463044.stm

Published: 2008/06/21 11:15:05 GMT

© BBC MMVIII
LOVE OR LEAVE PAKISTAN.
Wa-salaam.
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#11
zia ul haq

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Asalamo-a-laikum.

Shooting delays UN Syria inquiry
A UN inquiry into alleged Syrian nuclear activity has been delayed by the assassination of UN investigators' top contact in Damascus.

International Atomic Energy Agency Director Mohamed ElBaradei said the death of the IAEA's "main interlocutor" had made the inquiry more difficult.

Diplomats say the IAEA was dealing with Brig Gen Mohamed Suleiman before he was shot at a beach last month.

Opposition media in Syria described him as a top presidential security adviser.

Suleiman was reportedly shot dead by a sniper near the port city of Tartus.

Suleiman had responsibility for sensitive security issues, pan-Arab newspapers al-Hayat and Al-Sharq al-Awsat say.

The UN says samples taken from a desert site in Syria - which was bombed by Israeli warplanes a year ago - have so far shown no indication of nuclear material.

Tests inconclusive

Mr ElBaradei did not identify the murdered official during a closed-door meeting about the investigation into Syria's alleged nuclear activity.


SEQUENCE OF EVENTS
6 Sept 2007: Israel bombs site in Syria
1 Oct 2007: Syria's President Assad tells BBC site was military
24 Oct 2007: New satellite images taken show site bulldozed clear
24 April 2008: US claims Syrian site was nuclear reactor
22 June 2008: IAEA inspectors spend three days examining the al-Kibar site


However, a senior diplomat said Suleiman had escorted UN inspectors on their only investigative visit to the al-Kibar site in northern Syria in June.

"His murder made the IAEA's job that much harder," the diplomat told Reuters news agency.

"Suleiman knew what was what and had the ability to deliver things."

Earlier, Mr el-Baradei said the investigation into claims about Syria's alleged nuclear programme had so far proved inconclusive.

The al-Kibar installation was bombed by Israeli jets in September 2007. Israel and the US say the site was a nuclear plant in the making.

Damascus denies the claims but the ruins were bulldozed after the attack.

On Thursday, Washington queried what Syria had to hide with that action, and asked the IAEA for a fuller report of its investigation.

Damascus, for its part, accused the US of using "twisted logic" in pressuring his country, rather than condemning the Israeli attack.

Full results from environmental swipe samples taken in June from the bombed site are due to be released within 3 weeks.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.u...ast/7638499.stm

Published: 2008/09/26 17:37:59 GMT

© BBC MMVIII
___________________

This wasn't exactly subtle...
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#12
zia ul haq

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Asalamo-a-laikum.

Syrian general killed for role in nuclear investigation, says UN
September 27, 2008

VIENNA: The chief UN nuclear inspector says a Syrian official taking part in his agency's investigation of an alleged covert atomic program in the country has been assassinated.

Mohamed ElBaradei, the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, gave no names or details, but he appeared to be referring to the killing of Brigadier General Mohammed Suleiman last month.

Arab media have said General Suleiman was killed by a sniper at the northern port city of Tartous.

Meanwhile, the agency is trying to follow up on US assertions that a Syrian site bombed last year by Israel was a nearly finished reactor that could produce plutonium once activated.

The US asked the agency on Thursday for a fuller accounting of its investigation of Syria's alleged efforts to secretly develop a plutonium-producing facility at a site bombed by Israel.

A Syrian envoy in turn accused the US of using "twisted logic" in pressuring his country instead of condemning the Israeli attack.

"When you shield the aggressor and when you accuse the victim it is … being not only an accessory to the crimes committed, but also encouraging more crimes," the Syrian ambassador to the UN, Mohammed Badi Khattab, said.

He also urged the next US administration, which takes office next year, to play a more active role in Turkish-mediated Syrian-Israeli efforts to reach a peace agreement: "Without the US being in the negotiations, there is no guarantee that what you agree upon will be implemented."

Because the US is "the only country that has this unique relationship with Israel, [it] has the duty to influence its position in moving forward", he said

The US has hung back from directly engaging Syria, saying it must stop support for Hezbollah and others labelled by Washington as terrorists as part of any move into the mainstream fold.

Associated Press
http://www.smh.com.a...2217517699.html




Yep. He's dead.

I'm not sure if this will completely hinder the investigation itself. If he was helping it could be termed as a setback, but it won't stop it, or is unlikely to at least.
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#13
zia ul haq

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Asalamo-a-laikum.

Syria rebuffs nuclear inspectors
The head of Syria's nuclear programme has said that the country's military sites will remain off-limits to international nuclear inspectors.

Damascus said it would co-operate with an International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) inquiry only if it did not threaten its national security.

The watchdog is investigating claims of a secret Syrian nuclear programme.

Syria's announcement comes after it dropped a bid to win a place on the board of the IAEA.

The IAEA investigation follows US allegations that Damascus was close to completing a nuclear reactor at a secret location, which was bombed by Israel last year.

Syria has denied the allegations as "ridiculous".

Ibrahim Othman told the IAEA that his government was "co-operating with the agency in full transparency".

"However, this co-operation will not be in any way at the expense of disclosing our military sites or causing a threat to our national security," he added.

'Good co-operation'

Damascus allowed IAEA inspectors to visit the site at al-Kibar in June but has refused any follow-up trips.

On Friday, Syria dropped its bid for a place on the IAEA board, leaving the post open to Western-backed Afghanistan.

Both had been vying for the same seat on the board, representing the Middle East and South Asia (Mesa) group.

The body had been facing a divisive and unprecedented vote on the issue.

IAEA Director Mohamed ElBaradei said Syria's co-operation had been "good", but it needed to show "maximum co-operation" for the agency to draw any conclusions.

A Syrian officer reported to have been in charge of facilitating the IAEA probe was killed in unexplained circumstances last summer, further delaying the proceedings.

On Wednesday Iran, also accused by some countries of clandestine nuclear activity, dropped its bid for a seat on the IAEA board, saying it wanted to make way for regional ally Syria to join instead.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.u...ast/7652104.stm

Published: 2008/10/03 22:33:03 GMT

© BBC MMVIII







Well, I guess they feel the heat is off, they're talking to the Israelis, and they can therefore tell the IAEA to get stuffed!!

Good for them! Half the inspectors are probably spies anyway.
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#14
zia ul haq

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Asalamo-a-laikum.

Syrian site faces scrutiny by atomic agency
George Jahn in Vienna
October 30, 2008

Advertisement
FRESHLY evaluated soil and air samples from a Syrian site bombed by Israel on suspicion it was a covert nuclear reactor provide enough evidence to go ahead with a UN investigation.

The findings are important after months of uncertainty about the status of the investigation by the International Atomic Energy Agency.

Preliminary results regarding environmental samples collected from the site by an agency team and made public earlier this year were inconclusive, adding weight to Syrian assertions that no trips beyond the initial agency visit in June were necessary. But diplomats said on Tuesday that the IAEA's final evaluation, completed a few days ago, convinced the agency it needed to press on with its investigation.

The US says the facility hit by Israeli warplanes about 13 months ago was an almost-complete reactor that - when on line - could produce plutonium, a pathway to nuclear arms. But Damascus denies running a covert program.

Syria's chief IAEA delegate, Mohammed Badi Khattab, said on Tuesday he was unaware that the evaluation was complete and could not comment until his country was told of the findings.

Syria's nuclear chief, Ibrahim Othman, has said his country would wait for final environmental results before deciding how to respond to repeated agency requests for follow-up visits after the one in June when the samples were collected. Mr Khattab repeated that stance, saying "further developments will depend on us receiving the final result".

Meanwhile Syria protested against a US raid into its territory to the UN, saying those killed were "innocent civilians", and announced it was closing an American school and cultural centre in its capital.

A government spokesman for Iraq, from which US forces launched Sunday's raid, joined Syria in condemning the incursion. US military officials said on Monday that American forces flew by helicopter about six kilometres into Syria on Sunday, targeting the leader of a smuggling network used to funnel fighters, arms and money into Iraq. In a letter on Tuesday to the UN, Syria said the eight people killed in the raid were civilians, including a woman and one man killed with his four sons.

Syria urged Iraq to investigate the US raid and said the attack came as Syria had been increasing efforts to stem the flow of foreign fighters into Iraq.

"In this regard, we refer that this unjustified act of aggression comes at a time when the Iraqi and US sides recognise Syria's efforts exerted to preserve Iraq security and prevent any illegal infiltrations into its territories," the letter said. The raid could hinder US efforts to stabilise Iraq: Syria on Tuesday postponed Syrian-Iraqi talks on regional co-operation that were scheduled for November 12.

Associated Press, The Washington Post


This story was found at: http://www.smh.com.a...4956137085.html






It seems to be dragging on. I've been to Syria and if this was a nuclear site what i can't understand is why the Syrians didn't build it underground instead of out in the open. You can't so much as take a pee outside without a satellite measuring your 'ruler'.

It was bound to have been spotted, especially near the Tigris.
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#15
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The Battle for Syria
August 2, 2011 | From theTrumpet.com

An Arab Spring may take root, but don’t be fooled by what grows.
by ROBERT MORLEY

When the United States government and al Qaeda agree on something, you know that can’t be a good thing.

In this case, they both want Syrian President Bashir Assad to step down. Bizarrely, that’s not all they agree on. On July 11, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said, “President Assad is not indispensable. … Our goal is to see that the will of the Syrian people for a democratic transformation occurs” (emphasis added throughout).

Responding to America’s overtures to the anti-government protesters, al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri warned the pro-democracy activists not to deal with America. America would only corrupt them, he said. He called Assad, however, a “leader of criminal gangs,” an “aggressor,” an “oppressor,” and a “traitor” to his people. He applauded the pro-democracy activists’ efforts to teach Assad a “lesson.” And he hailed Syrian protesters as “mujahideen,” or holy warriors.

Both America and al Qaeda are pushing for democracy in Syria. Yet for all the talk, that is mostly all it is. Neither group has much influence in Syria.

Syria’s future will be determined by other powers more influential than the U.S. and al Qaeda. Since the country sits near the heart of the world’s most important but increasingly volatile oil-exporting region, the resolution of Syria’s Arab Spring will not only impact regional stability but the world economy. Plus, Syria’s Arab Spring could easily morph into Israel’s dark winter if the Jewish state ends up with an even more radical regime as a “peace partner.”

The pressure for regime change in Syria is coming from both inside and outside—but not necessarily from where you might expect.

From within, the pressure for change comes from its 75 percent Sunni majority, who are upset with the ruling Alawite minority of President Bashir Assad. This is not unexpected. Sunnis are both economically disadvantaged and politically unrepresented despite their vast majority. The recent protests are the product of years of repression and in some cases outright persecution.

Now the protests seem to be intensifying—as is Assad’s crackdown. Sunday was perhaps the bloodiest day so far.

Reports indicate that another 120 people were killed as troops besieged the city of Hama for a second day. Tanks shelled the city of 800,000 people as protesters vowed not to allow themselves to be slaughtered, as happened during the last revolt against Assad’s father in 1982. Hama controls the main highway connecting the capital city of Damascus with Syria’s largest city, Aleppo.

On Monday, an intense gun battle was also reportedly raging in the eastern city of Deir el-Zour, and soldiers backed by tanks took control of the town of Houla in the central province of Homs.

The protests are no longer just contained to the far south, and it is harder for Assad to blame the uprisings on agitators from Jordan and Israel. As the protests have grown in strength, and greater numbers of military defections continue to occur, there is a growing sense that Assad may be starting to lose control of events. It is estimated that 1,600 civilians have now been killed since the largely “peaceful” uprising began in mid-March.

The internal turmoil has opened up Syria to exploitation by outside powers. This is not unknown by Assad, but there may be little he can do about it. If Assad wants to stay in power, he needs friends—and that comes with a price.

With the United States winding down its presence in the Middle East and evacuating its troops, the region is fragmenting into competing power blocs. Syria is caught right in the center of the power struggle.

These power blocs can be categorized as those aligned with Iran and those reacting against Iran’s growing strength.

Currently, Syria is in the Iranian camp (along with Iraq and, increasingly, Egypt). Syria is Iran’s most important ally, and Iran will do all it can to keep it in its sphere of influence.

Now that Syria is experiencing internal turmoil, Iran is trying to exploit this vulnerability to strengthen this alliance and thus its foothold near Lebanon and Israel’s northern border. When the protests initially broke out, Iran sent Bashir Assad both Hezbollah fighters and crack Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corp members to help stomp out the uprisings. According to Stratfor, this sent a dual message that Iran could not only help Assad but also hurt him if he chose to realign himself with other Sunni states in an effort to gain their assistance in pacifying the protesters. Iranian meddling has thus far proved effective—but in the end, meddling of any kind also tends to produce a backlash.

Iran is currently using America’s withdrawal from the region and the general unrest as a once-in-a-lifetime-type opportunity to destabilize its Sunni Arab rivals and assert its regional hegemony. Iran’s virtual takeover of Iraq is one example, as is the battle for Bahrain and the world’s largest oil fields.

Attempting to oppose Iran’s growing influence in the Middle East is a Saudi-led coalition of nations.

“Saudi Arabia has an ambition and so does Iran,” noted Bassel Salloukh, assistant professor of politics at the Lebanese American University, in 2009. “Syria stands in the middle.”

Saudi Arabia has been working on shifting Syrian loyalties for years. It too looks on the current crisis as a game-changing opportunity.

Saudi Arabia’s current plan of action hinges on its greatest strength: oil exports. Earlier this year it lent Syria $73 million to construct a new power plant to alleviate growing electricity shortages. The message from Saudi Arabia and other Gulf Cooperation Council members (which now include Jordan) is that they are more than willing to help Assad overcome his financial difficulties, as long as his regime takes the necessary and visible actions to distance itself from Iran.

But perhaps the greatest pressure for change in Syria is coming via its neighbor Turkey.

As it is for Saudi Arabia, it is in Turkey’s strategic interest to build a coalition of states to act as a counterbalance to Iran.

This fits well with the views of Turkey’s Islamist Prime Minister Recip Erdogan, who seems to envision Turkey as the leader of the Arabs. Coming to power in 2002, he has since been accused of seeking to establish a new Ottoman empire.

With a fast-growing economy, a rising population and the largest military in Europe, Turkey has become a formidable power. With its nato ties, it also has access to many tier-one economic and military powers not available to some of its Middle Eastern rivals. “For the first time since the end of World War i, Ankara is beginning to revisit its historical role as a regional powerhouse,” wrote Stratfor (June 8, 2010).

America’s wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, along with rejection by the European Union due to its Muslim religion, have compelled Turkey to step out on its own.

Although its first small steps saw it begin to subordinate its defense agreement with Israel and make overtures to Iran, events in Syria are now setting up a clash with the Persians.

Turkey has been working closely with Syria to help manage the fallout from the protests there. Syria is relying on Turkey to prevent nato intervention (like in Libya), while Turkey wants to make sure the violence does not spread from Syria’s Kurdish population into its own. Toward this end, Erdogan is publicly insisting on enough reforms to satisfy the protesters, but not so many as to cause Assad to lose power.

However, behind the scenes, there is evidence that Turkey is pushing for much more dramatic changes. According to the Jerusalem Post’s Caroline Glick, Turkey has been actively interfering in the revolt against Assad. Meanwhile, Turkish humanitarian relief agencies are hosting Syrian opposition leaders in Turkey.

Stratfor confirms that the “Assad regime may have reason to be wary of Turkey’s long-term intentions for Syria” (April 7). According to Stratfor analysts, Erdogan’s party wants Syria’s Islamist organizations to gain political space—with the goal of becoming their eventual sponsor. For now, Syria needs Turkish support, so Ottoman influence in Syria will probably grow.

“Erdogan’s clear aim is to replace Iran as Syria’s overlord in a post-Assad Syria,” says Glick.

So who will win in Syria?

In March, Saudi Deputy Defense Minister Prince Khalid bin Sultan told his Turkish counterpart that the Saudi royals “want to see Turkey as a strategic partner of Saudi Arabia” (Stratfor, March 4).

Will the Turks join Saudi Arabia’s Gulf Cooperation Council (gcc) in opposing Iran? By working together, they would certainly form a much more formidable front.

The longer and more violent the Syrian protests get, the more an Arab coalition including Syria and joined with Turkey looks probable.

In fact, this is exactly what the Bible predicts will happen. Psalm 83 gives us an insight into what is coming in the very near future.

This Psalm contains a prophecy of a group of nations that ally themselves together with the purpose of destroying Israel. The Psalm 83 nations are distinct from a more powerful region-wide dominating power (the Iran-led camp). This prophecy is fulfilled after a German-led European power conquers Iran and its allies (Daniel 11:40-43).

Psalm 83:5-8 list who is in this non-Iranian alliance that readily allies itself with the invading Europeans. “For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee: The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes; Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre; Assur [Assyria or Germany] also is joined with them: they have holpen the children of Lot. Selah.” Here are the modern names of these nations, as taught at Ambassador College under Herbert W. Armstrong: Edom—Turkey; Ishmaelites—Saudi Arabia; Moab—Jordan; Hagarenes—anciently dwelt in the land known as Syria today; Gebal and Tyre—Lebanon; Ammon—also Jordan. This is not extremely precise, but it gives a good general idea of where these nations are today. The small Arab nations on the Arabian Peninsula making up the gcc would biblically speaking be considered part of Saudi Arabia because of their Ishmaelitish origin.

The reason Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Libya and Ethiopia are missing from the Psalm 83 list is that they are allied with Iran when it is conquered by a German-led Europe (Daniel 11:42-43).


As we see Turkey, Saudi Arabia and the other gcc member states seek to incorporate more allies to protect themselves from Iran, also watch for them to begin reaching out to Germany and the Europeans for protection.

Additionally, watch for a change in Syrian politics. Bible prophecy indicates that at the time of the Daniel 11 European invasion, Syria and Lebanon will not be allied with Iran. Since in many ways Lebanon is controlled by Syria, watch for it to eventually abandon Iran.

Syria’s Arab Spring is not over yet. America is shrinking in influence. Iran is becoming the undisputed king of the region, and new allies are banding together for protection. Prophecy is being fulfilled, and despite the troubles ahead, it is all leading to the best news ever: the return of Jesus Christ.

For more information on the Psalm 83 alliance, read “A Mysterious Prophecy” by Gerald Flurry. •

http://www.thetrumpe...q=8509.7231.0.0

http://www.thetrumpe...8136.6785.134.0
PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#16
Hafeez

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Leo,

Would you please clarify why you posted this above article? Also the point you were trying to make with highlighted text. This publication is by Philadelphia church of God which preaches about second coming of Jesus. IMHO this article is just as much related to Syria situation as would be an article by Jamat-e-Islami on the subject.

#17
Leo

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Hafeez,

I posted the above mentioned article to highlight the following important points:
1. Christians & Jews are actually the religious fundamentalists who are following an agenda based on their religious beliefs and prophecies. (They don't openly admit it)
2. Muslims who have to follow their religion, have moved away from their belief and this is why Muslims countries are in the worst state of dis array in history.
3. Although the christians & jews are religious fanatics, the Muslims are being victimized as the religious fundamentalists.
4. In any article you read, all plans of the neocons are based on religious prophecies.

This isn't just an article from the church of God, this is very carefully being marketed through this source. They openly don't accept that they believe on the bible prophecies but in actual they do.
PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

#18
Sultan

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Turkey Takes Jet Downing to NATO, Syria Tension Soars
Jun. 24, 2012 - 11:46AM | By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE | Comments

World News
Europe
DAMASCUS — NATO said on June 24 it will discuss Turkey’s accusation that Syria shot down one of its warplanes in international airspace, as Damascus suffered heavy losses and violence scaled new heights.

Syria’s surging bloodshed saw at least 63 people killed on June 24, nearly half of them troops who died in clashes with rebels, activists said.

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu warned Ankara’s southern neighbor not to challenge Turkey’s military, as Britain, another member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, offered support for “robust” international action.

“According to our conclusions, our plane was shot down in international airspace, 13 nautical miles from Syria,” Davutoglu told Turkey’s TRT television.

“The Syrians knew full well that it was a Turkish military plane and the nature of its mission,” he said. “Nobody should dare put Turkey’s (military) capabilities to the test.”

British Foreign Secretary William Hague said: “The (President Bashar al-) Assad regime should not make the mistake of believing that it can act with impunity. It will be held to account for its behavior.”

NATO said it will meet June 26 to discuss the issue following a request by Turkey.

“Under Article 4, any ally can request consultations whenever, in the opinion of any of them, their territorial integrity, political independence or security is threatened,” a NATO spokeswoman said.

Damascus said it downed the F-4 Phantom on June 22 after it violated Syrian airspace.

Turkey had on June 23 acknowledged the plane may have done so, in comments seen as a bid to cool tensions between the former allies, but it now appears to have taken a harder stance.

“Syria was merely exercising its right and sovereign duty and defense,” Syrian foreign ministry spokesman Jihad Makdissi was quoted as saying June 24 in Al-Watan, a pro-government daily.

“There is no enmity between Syria and Turkey, but political tension (exists) between the two countries.

“What happened was an accident and not an assault as some like to say, because the plane was shot while it was in Syrian airspace and flew over Syrian territorial waters,” Makdissi said.

CNN-Turk television reported that search and rescue teams have located the wreckage of the jet at a depth of 1,300 meters (yards) in the sea, but did not give its precise location or refer to the fate of the two missing pilots.

Ankara said it could not confirm the report.

Turkey-Syria relations have already been strained by Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s outspoken condemnation of the Assad’s regime’s bloody crackdown, which rights activists say has killed more than 15,000 people since March 2011.

Bad week for Assad
At least 63 people were killed June 24 in Syria, nearly half of them regime troops who died in clashes with rebels, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights reported.

At least 16 soldiers were killed in the northern province of Aleppo, while the rest died in neighbouring Idlib province and in the provinces of Damascus and Deir Ezzor in the east, the watchdog said.

“The clashes happened almost simultaneously at dawn,” in Aleppo, which borders Turkey, the Observatory’s head Rami Abdel Rahman told AFP.

The fighting took place in the town of Dara Aza and at military checkpoints near the town of Al-Atarib and the village of Kafr Halab, the Britain-based watchdog said.

The Observatory reported that following an attack on an artillery battalion also in Aleppo, a number of soldiers defected, taking with them a large quantity of weapons.

In another setback for the regime, rebels captured 11 government soldiers in the central province of Damascus, it added.

“This is one of the bloodiest weeks in the conflict,” Abdel Rahman said.

The Observatory also reported that rebels had shot down a Syrian regime helicopter near the Jordanian border.

According to Observatory figures, 94 people were killed in Syria last Monday, 62 on June 19, 88 on June 20, 168 on June 21, 116 on June 22 and 116 more on June 23.

“It’s like we are in a war,” Abdel Rahman said. “Sometimes when two countries are at war, not even 20 people are killed a day. But now in Syria it has become normal to have 100 killed each day.”

A Russian ship that tried to deliver attack helicopters to Syria entered the northern port of Murmansk on June 24 after being forced to turn back when news of its mission was leaked.

An unnamed Russian diplomatic source said the ship, the Alaed, would soon try again to make the highly controversial delivery under the Russian flag.

The switch appears to be an attempt to avoid security inspections that come when sailing under the flag of a third country.

The Alaed was forced to turn back after its mission was initially mentioned by the U.S. State Department and then reported in the British press. Those reports prompted the ship’s British insurer to withdraw coverage.

http://www.defensene...|text|FRONTPAGE
“In times of conflict the soldier does not control the war, rather the war controls the soldier. Occasionally, in the midst of such chaos and insanity windows of opportunity appear open to exploitation. It is how the window of opportunity is exploited, by the soldier, that defines the battle.... a battle which upholds the fallacy of the soldier in control of the war” (Anonymous).

#19
Munir

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Orchestrated I think.

Turkey has been invading Greece daily with armed and unarmed planes. Strange cause both are NATO. Now they flew RF4 (photo recon F4) low and high speed into Syria. When returning it was shot down by Syria and it crashed inside Syrian waters. How on earth is it Syria to blame? How much I personally hate Syrians leadership, it does not alter my opinion. Turkey is wrong. It did allow in the past the US to transit to destroy Syrian nuclear plant (which I am happy about that there is nothing left but it is still intruding and attacking) and now it did fly into Syria. Accept being shot down.One cannot create tamasha a la Gaza flotilla.

There is no such thing as Islamic, Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Jewish or Atheist science. It is the study the laws of God. Dr Abdus Salam.

 

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#20
SSAAD

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How does Turkey invade Greece daily?

Secondly, what information do you have which counters "plane was shot down in international airspace, 13 nautical miles from Syria,"?




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