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The DODO (DRDO) Stories thread

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The most important thing is not specific programmes, but the change of culture at these Organization. Nowdays, many of them have fully staffed research labs with trained personnel. And are hiring fresh graduates. That will lead to a much more sustainable model of development, not just in the defence sector but otherwise as well.

 

Just to give you a small example, several years ago, I met one senior manager in a professional capacity. He ran a well known manufacturer, whom I won't name. They used to license produce Chinese and European technology and sell under own brand name. They hired a former (I think) KRL type to be their head of research. He suggested a few small changes in, which made the device cheaper to produce and more efficient. Because of that, the new range of products is domestically designed and produced and the Board agreed to greatly expand their labs, seriously. Before, it used to be a place with technicians and mistris. Now its filled with scientists with years of experience and publications and highly qualified engineers. More to the point they are hiring fresh graduates and training them.

 

This is probably the most positive legacy of the whole nuclear programme. 

Aliusman, Uzair and ndad like this

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DRDO keeping its ambitions high once again. LCA is so 1980's, lets go for stealth UCAVs instead...

 

 

 

India set to develop own stealth combat drones
 
Rajat Pandit | TNN | Dec 14, 2015, 02.40 AM IST
Representative image
 
NEW DELHI: India is finally getting set to launch an ambitious project to develop its own stealth combat drones or UCAVs (unmanned combat aerial vehicles), which will be capable of firing missiles and precision-guided munitions at enemy targets and then returning to
home bases to re-arm for further missions.
 
Sources said the government was close to approving a Rs 2,650 crore Project Ghatak to develop the futuristic "Indian Unmanned Strike Air Vehicle", which has already been cleared by the defence ministry. "The project is now being evaluated by an expert committee set up by the finance ministry. Once approved, Project Ghatak will be placed before the cabinet committee on security for the final nod," said a source.
 
READ ALSO: IAF to get mini drones for covert operations
 
Project Ghatak flows from the earlier AURA (autonomous unmanned research aircraft) programme, which was sanctioned in 2009 at a cost of Rs 12.50 crore to carry out a "conceptual and feasibility study" for the future Indian UCAV. "The (AURA) project was successfully completed in April 2013 within the time schedule," minister of state for defence Rao Inderjit Singh told Parliament earlier this month.
 
Project Ghatak, initiated by the Aeronautical Development Agency-DRDO combine in consultation with the IAF, now plans to bring in "collaborators" from the initial stage itself. Weighing less than a fighter jet since it will be "more of a flying-wing in design", the UCAV will take at least a decade to become fully-operational.
 
Interestingly, the UCAV will be powered by a "52-kilonewton dry variant" of the indigenously-developed Kaveri aerospace engine, which could not pass muster to become the power plant for the Tejas light combat aircraft.
 
The Kaveri engine failed to provide the higher thrust required to power Tejas throughout its flight envelope, which led India to procure American GE engines for the indigenous fighter project. But all the work done on the Kaveri engine, on which Rs 2,839 crore have been spent after it was first approved way back in 1989, will now not go waste, sources said.
 
READ ALSO: India turns to Israel for armed drones as Pakistan, China build fleets
 
Incidentally, the armed forces already have Israeli Harop 'killer' drones, which basically act as cruise missiles to first detect and then destroy specific enemy targets and radars by exploding into them in kamikaze fashion.
 
Moreover, some of the existing Indian fleet of Israeli Heron and Searcher-II UAVs are also being upgraded with "add-ons" to ensure they can undertake a combat mission over and above their current surveillance and precision-targeting roles, as earlier reported by TOI.
 
 
But UCAVs are far more advanced, and considered among the most potent game-changers in modern day warfare. The 'Predator' and 'Reaper' drones which are controlled from the US through satellites, for instance, have been extensively used to fire 'Hellfire' missiles against Taliban targets in the Af-Pak region.
 
The armed forces, on their part, are keen to further induct a wide variety of drones, ranging from hand-launched mini ones to full-fledged UCAVs. The Army, for instance, wants at least 598 mini-UAVs to ensure "battlefield transparency" and "beyond the hill surveillance" in a 10-km radius for its infantry soldiers.
 

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DRDO keeping its ambitions high once again. LCA is so 1980's, lets go for stealth UCAVs instead...

 

 

 

India set to develop own stealth combat drones
 
Rajat Pandit | TNN | Dec 14, 2015, 02.40 AM IST
Representative image
 
....

 

 

It is the duty of all Pakistanis visiting India to leave a bouquet of flowers at the main gate of DRDO HQ in Delhi. If any passerby or the security personnel ask, why? Just say that this beautiful organization has contributed so much to our defense (while not revealing your nationality).  

A Khan, H Khan, yasser and 2 others like this

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^^ not revealing your nationality wouldn't help, as more likely to be incarcerated on grounds of being an ISI android then a human from another country.

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HAL taking  two LCA to Bahrain for Bahrain Air show :D, Looks like the Swadesi ego took a big hit after seeing Thunder at Paris and countless other air shows :). Their AF does not have a single LCA squad and they will give any new customer a delivery date of 2040 with LCA Mk007 Bond :D . LCA cant even fly from Mumbai to Bahrain and they are worried where to stop in between :D Enjoy guys how much it hurts them to see us at Air shows with Thunder :P I miss Vivek and his ultimate optimism for Little Confused Aircraft

imran, Khalid A., H Rehman and 1 other like this

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Given the track record of the Dhruv in the international market, potential buyers will be very very very wary of any Indian manufactured weapon systems or subsystems or platforms. Even the Russians have replaced all India subsystems from the Su30SM and the "Brahmos" in Russian service is all Russian, with Indian sub-systems removed from these products.

 

The JF17 is a programme with pedigree and is in successful operational use with no issues. JF17 has earnt "it stripes" and is now a very well regarded platform.

 

As for the LCA, not even the IAF is interested, no matter how you post-fix the plane with "new variants". Why would any airforce take a risk with the LCA?

 

I can't see the LCA flying to Bahrain, a distance of 2400km.. even a "hop" from Mumbai to Oman of 1700km is too far.. the platform cannot be trusted to perform in a reliable fashion over those distances.. It will have to be in the back of a transport plane. I am certain of it.

 

As a side note...

 

"Make in India" is a fine "plan" and all.. but given that the aviation industry is sooo sensitive to reliability concerns and where a single crash can bring to an end an entire platform. Who is willing to stake their company and their reputation on Indian manufactured products? Dassault was not prepared to risk its brand image. Who else will ? Who in reality wants to have Indian manufactured sub-systems as part of the global aviation supply chain ? What India did with her software industry, cannot be replicated in aviation manufacturing. If a piece of software goes bad, it does not cause headlines to appear on the news(unless you are the RBS Bank in the Uk where their issues were traced back to "operators" in India..). The best news for aviation manufacturers is "no news" as it means their products are doing the job they were meant to.

 

Just look at the problems the Russians have had with their Sukhoi Superjet 100 since it had one crash ? How many buyers of that platform are there now ?

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Given the track record of the Dhruv in the international market, potential buyers will be very very very wary of any Indian manufactured weapon systems or subsystems or platforms. Even the Russians have replaced all India subsystems from the Su30SM and the "Brahmos" in Russian service is all Russian, with Indian sub-systems removed from these products.

 

The JF17 is a programme with pedigree and is in successful operational use with no issues. JF17 has earnt "it stripes" and is now a very well regarded platform.

 

As for the LCA, not even the IAF is interested, no matter how you post-fix the plane with "new variants". Why would any airforce take a risk with the LCA?

 

I can't see the LCA flying to Bahrain, a distance of 2400km.. even a "hop" from Mumbai to Oman of 1700km is too far.. the platform cannot be trusted to perform in a reliable fashion over those distances.. It will have to be in the back of a transport plane. I am certain of it.

 

As a side note...

 

"Make in India" is a fine "plan" and all.. but given that the aviation industry is sooo sensitive to reliability concerns and where a single crash can bring to an end an entire platform. Who is willing to stake their company and their reputation on Indian manufactured products? Dassault was not prepared to risk its brand image. Who else will ? Who in reality wants to have Indian manufactured sub-systems as part of the global aviation supply chain ? What India did with her software industry, cannot be replicated in aviation manufacturing. If a piece of software goes bad, it does not cause headlines to appear on the news(unless you are the RBS Bank in the Uk where their issues were traced back to "operators" in India..). The best news for aviation manufacturers is "no news" as it means their products are doing the job they were meant to.

 

Just look at the problems the Russians have had with their Sukhoi Superjet 100 since it had one crash ? How many buyers of that platform are there now ?

Let me play the role of "Vivek" aka Vikky by his Western coworkers, for all the wrong reasons.

*ahem*

Ok buddy, at least TEJAS (LCA outdated name, Ok?) is >10%+ Indian designed, what is JF-17? Why are you taking pride in a badly souped up MiG-21 designed and built in China? 

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10% includes the canopy latch, and the plastic knobs.

 

And this is why the IAF had to build a new airfield to accomodate its first two LCA squadrons. This airfield was going to be in the middle of country. IAF view: them being smart and so wanted it away so it didn't interfere with its front-line operations.

 

Vivek version (not as smart as IAF): its important to give air defense coverage in the center of the country. Yes, for 50 years IAF has not thought of it as a priority but being forced with a plane it doesn't need, almost a sudden its a priority. Thats a new niche export: when you have nothing for your in-land defense, please by the LCA.

 

Are you sure IAF will fly these or unpack them and transport them on a commercial air transport.

 

Oh Vivek, where are you?

Let me play the role of "Vivek" aka Vikky by his Western coworkers, for all the wrong reasons.

*ahem*

Ok buddy, at least TEJAS (LCA outdated name, Ok?) is >10%+ Indian designed, what is JF-17? Why are you taking pride in a badly souped up MiG-21 designed and built in China? 

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10% includes the canopy latch, and the plastic knobs.

 

And this is why the IAF had to build a new airfield to accomodate its first two LCA squadrons. This airfield was going to be in the middle of country. IAF view: them being smart and so wanted it away so it didn't interfere with its front-line operations.

 

Vivek version (not as smart as IAF): its important to give air defense coverage in the center of the country. Yes, for 50 years IAF has not thought of it as a priority but being forced with a plane it doesn't need, almost a sudden its a priority. Thats a new niche export: when you have nothing for your in-land defense, please by the LCA.

 

Are you sure IAF will fly these or unpack them and transport them on a commercial air transport.

 

Oh Vivek, where are you?

Vivek said wait for AMCA.

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Here is Vivek's response:

World's smallest combat jet's Mark-II avatar to be longer


Chethan Kumar | TNN | Dec 14, 2015, 03.32AM IST

BENGALURU: The Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas, pegged as the world's smallest combat jet, will become longer by 500mm-550mm in its Mark-II avatar, which is expected to take off after 2021, the defence PSU Hindustan Aeronautics Limited has said. Besides, the cost of Mark-IA, the upgraded version of the series production (SP) fighters, will be Rs 190 crore up from Rs 160-crore estimated last year, due to integration of more systems as requested by the Indian Air Force.

The IAF, which among other improvements has specified the need for higher thrust in the upgraded version - it means MK-II - will migrate to the GE-414 engine from GE-404 engine with that.

"For this, we will have to insert one fuselage that is larger by 500-550mm than the present one. This means that the aircraft has to be made bigger," HAL chairman T Suvarna Raju told TOI. The LCA has three fuselages - the front, centre and rear - and the change is expected in the centre one.

Arguing that the tweaks in design to accommodate the fuselage may seem simple on paper, Raju said: "But that would mean a change in the airframe and once the aircraft changes in size, a set of new tests will have to be done."

LCA division general manager V Sridharan said: "It is keeping in mind all this (the long process for the changes) that we said we would accommodate 43 of the 57 requests for action (RFAs) in the MK-IA version, which will have the 404 engine. Now that it's been accepted and the standard of preparation (SOP) is frozen, we will go through with this for the 100-odd aircraft."
Raju added that most of the 43 RFAs will be accommodated from the fifth or sixth aircraft that is to be produced for the IAF.

On the cost of the LCA MK-IA increasing by Rs 30 crore compared to the SP version, Sridharan said: "The cost is bound to go up when new things have to be integrated. And when some of the things include complex systems like the electronic warfare suit, new radar and mid-air refueling, it will (cost will go up)."

He said the MoD and the IAF have been intimated of this and that HAL is going ahead with the improvements as sought.

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Despite all the issues and multi-national involvement with Tejas, do remember that HF-24 Marut was not a bad aircraft having gone through the same sort of a development cycle.  I think by the time they get to Mark-II, it will be a good aircraft.  As to how much life it will have ahead of itself would be questionable based on how quickly the threats evolve in the region. 

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LCA Mark II = India's attempt to make a third rate, fourth generation fighter using fifth generation technology.   :D

TKhan and ushakeel like this

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Hey, what happened to Mark 1A?  I thought they were then going to have Mark 1A(i), then Mark 1A(i)Alpha, then Mark 1A(i)AlphaAlif.

 

Mark II needs at least 10 years since it needs a redesign of the whole air frame.

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To be honest I don't think the LCA's issues have to do with its performance per se, but likely baseline quality assurance checks. HAL is a pretty bad player there, but as more work is off-loaded to the Indian private sector (e.g. TATA), I think we should be much more concerned. These firms are professional entities and while it's a bit late for LCA, India's next generation programs will see a lot of input from these private sector actors. Pakistan needs to really invest in its native R&D fundamentals, we can't keep depending on the ineptitude of others as a strength!

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Deficient equipment: No parachutes in Indian Army for over a decade, says report
DAWN.COM — PUBLISHED ABOUT 12 HOURS AGO
 
 
 
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NEW DELHI: The Indian Army went without specialised parachutes that can be crucial to success in certain missions for over a decade, India's top auditor has said in a report presented before the Indian parliament.
 
“Combat free fall parachutes are required during highly specialised operations and are vital for the success of the missions carried out by Parachutes Special Forces Battalions of the Indian Army. However, the Army was without these specialised parachutes for over a decade," a report published on the Hindustan Times website quoted the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) of India as saying in the report.
 
The audit report stated that India's Ordnance Factories Board failed to successfully produce the parachutes which were developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) in 2006 after incurring over INR 100 million in cost.
 
The report has also raised questions on the functioning of the army aviation corps, the cantonment boards, and shortfall in the availability of BMP combat vehicles in the Indian Army.
 
The report lays emphasis on insufficiency of the army aviation corps saying it had a deficiency of 32 per cent against its authorised fleet strength.
 
The CAG report was also critical of the Indian Air Force, for its sub-optimal utilisation of operational capabilities for its Airborne Warning And Control System (AWACS) aircraft which were purchased in 2004 at a cost of more than INR 50 billion. The shortage of aircrew may impact the operations of the planes during hostilities, the report adds.
 
The auditor also pointed to the low serviceability of the Sukhois, India's front-line combat aircraft
 

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^^How come DRDO has to develop every nut and bolt indigenously?Are they living in vedic period with no outside communication? Why can't they just produce licensed copies of parachutes in India if 'make in India' is really that important?

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Its very strange.

 

Its not rocket science to produce a parachute and you have a lot of private companies out there to do it for you at your home if you want some know how.

 

I find it difficult to believe that the report is correct - But then again its DRDO....

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I have worked in TATA for three years and going by their work culture its as Indian as HAL lol. LCA will be flying at aero india in 2050 with IOC and first AC in sqd service flying in just 14 months in 2052 :)

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India's Reliance Defence signs $6bn deal with Russian arms firm as Modi visits Moscow
REUTERS — PUBLISHED 2 DAYS AGO
 
NEW DELHI: India's Reliance Defence said on Thursday it had signed a manufacturing and maintenance deal potentially worth $6 billion with Russia's Almaz-Antey, the maker of an air defence system that sources said the Indian military was poised to buy.
 
The partnership between the Indian firm controlled by billionaire Anil Ambani and the Russian firm was announced as Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi began a trip to Moscow aimed at strengthening defence ties.
 
Earlier this week, Indian defence ministry sources said the government had cleared the purchase of five S-400 air defence systems that are estimated to cost about $4.5 billion in a bid to modernise the country's defences against airborne attacks.
 
"The two sides identified the air defence missile systems... radars and automated control systems as areas of partnership... as well as offset policies of the Indian Ministry of Defence," Reliance said in a statement.
 
Under the offsets policy, global defence contractors are required to invest a percentage of the value of any deal in India to help it build a defence industrial base and reduce imports for a military that has emerged as the world's biggest buyer of arms in recent years.
 
India is forecast to spend $250 billion over the next decade to upgrade its military and Modi's government wants a greater role for Indian state and defence firms.
 
Reliance is forging close ties with Russia to jumpstart its ambitions to develop a defence business from scratch. It said it had also discussed joint implementation of modernisation, repair and overhaul of Almaz-Antey systems already in service in India.
 
The company also plans to bid for contracts for local manufacture of helicopters, submarines and ships.
 
Earlier this month, Ambani's Reliance Infrastructure took sole management control of Pipavav Defence and Offshore Engineering Co which has built patrol vessels for the Indian navy.
 

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Posted · Report post

A little correction, S-400 never came up during the talks

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Crony capitalism at its best. One Gujrati helping another rake in the cash.

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