Pakistan Air Force - 2018

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The most significant development for the PAF during the time the forum was down has been the 'Project Azm' initiative. Although we don't have the finer details, given the significant investment being poured into the project, i.e. aviation city, my view is that this will be a project along similar lines as the JF-17, i.e. a new, clean sheet design, in collaboration with Chinese firms (either Chengdu or Shenyang at this stage), designed specifically for PAF needs. Similar to how PAC gained valuable insight and ToT with the JF-17, project Azm will build on this legacy; however, the scope will be significantly expanded to now include a design and development hub in Pakistan (Aviation City), rather than the bulk of the R&D being performed in China.

The less risky option would be to opt for the J-31, modified for the PAF, and licence built at PAC. The wild card would be to acquire a stake in the TFX, although this seems like a long shot to me.

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Posted · Report post

J-31 is very iffy and risky option for PAF, for J-31 to be successful there needs to be commitment order of more then 150 jets. PAF is unlikely to acquire 150 J-31s, PAF at most will go for 40-48 5th gen fighters ( due to procurement and operational cost ). PAF in that sense is better off waiting for AVIC/CAC to develop the 5th Gen workhorse that will do the grunt work for PLAAN / PLAAF while J-20 does the high end. If no other air force goes for J-31 then PAF is stuck with jet operated by it, any upgrade, modification will have to be paid by PAF solely.

I am using the term 150 loosely based on JF-17 to be considered successful in PAF, anything above is icing on the cake.

TFX, it depends how many units Turks will acquire for program to be successful and if there be any restriction of it export to PAF.

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Posted · Report post

Well the J-31 is meant to be the lower tier workhorse for the PLAF, and despite apparent lack of interest from the PLAF, there doesn't seem to be any other platform in development by the Chinese, which would need to be at prototype stage at least if it were to complement the J20. In addition, the JF-17 analogy doesn't work, because the PAF remains the sole operator of the type in significant numbers. Any further development work has been funded by ourselves, partially or fully. The PLAF has no need for it, and I doubt that Myanmar or Nigeria have contributed any development funding given the low numbers they have ordered. Even the twin seat B model was probably largely funded by ourselves.

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Posted · Report post

But in JF-17, the overall number will likely be over 250 to absorb the over all cost and it borrows a lot of technology (avionics) developed for J-10 as well, we can't say the same for J-31 that it may get J-20s tech added to it. Since PLAAF/PLAAN hasn't shown much interest in J-31, TFX may be a better option.

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Posted · Report post

Seems like the Indians are on their way to acquiring the S400, and with radar range of 600km and maximum missile range of 400km (assuming they receive the 40N6 missile), that would place almost all major PAF bases under its coverage. Worst case scenario is that it would effectively ground the PAF, and neutralise our AEWAC aircraft. This is the second most significant game changer since the Su-30MKI. The S400 is quickly gaining a reputation for itself, one has only to look at the reaction of the Saudis (they threatened to attack Qatar if it acquired it), the US (threats against Turkey and other allies) and its expanding order book (even the Chinese acquired it because they have nothing like it).

How will the PAF respond?

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Posted · Report post

Seems like the Indians are on their way to acquiring the S400, and with radar range of 600km and maximum missile range of 400km (assuming they receive the 40N6 missile), that would place almost all major PAF bases under its coverage. Worst case scenario is that it would effectively ground the PAF, and neutralise our AEWAC aircraft. This is the second most significant game changer since the Su-30MKI. The S400 is quickly gaining a reputation for itself, one has only to look at the reaction of the Saudis (they threatened to attack Qatar if it acquired it), the US (threats against Turkey and other allies) and its expanding order book (even the Chinese acquired it because they have nothing like it).

How will the PAF respond?

​​

i highly doubt that it will be that significant. Su-30MKI turns out to be not as big of a game changer as we all thought initially. this item seems to be same in my opinion. 

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Pakistan Air Force spokesperson said that a training jet of PAF crashed while landing near Bacha Khan International Airport on Tuesday, resulting in martyrdom of two pilots of PAF.  

 

Pakistan Air Force said in a statement, "Pakistan Air Force reports with regret that a PAF FT-7PG trainer aircraft while recovering from a routine operational training mission crashed during landing at Peshawar air base. Rescue operation is in progress."

An inquiry board has been formed after the incident, said PAF spokesperson. 

Official sources said the aircraft crashed around 11:40am near the customs landing runway. It is said that the plane crashed due to a technical fault.

Smoke could be seen rising from the vicinity of the airport after the incident.

An emergency was declared at the airport after the incident. However, airport sources said the rescue staff managed to douse the flames and clear the runway.


https://nation.com.pk/26-Jun-2018/paf-jet-crashes-near-peshawar-airport

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Pakistan Air Force delegation visiting WZL-1 (SOURCE)

On the 24th of November 2017, Military Aviation Works No. 1 had a pleasure to host the delegation of Pakistan Air Force in the head of which was General Sohail Aman. In addition to Pakistani delegates, the representatives of Polish Ministry of National Defence and Polish Armaments Group also participated in the meeting. The dialogue focused on overhaul and modernization capabilities for Pakistani Mi-171, with a particular input on adapting those helicopters to modern NVG solutions.

 

Pakistan Air Force visiting WZL-1 (SOURCE)

On the 30th of January 2018, Wojskowe Zakłady Lotnicze Nr 1 (Military Aviation Works No. 1) had a pleasure of hosting Pakistan Air Force delegation, as well as the representatives of Polska Grupa Zbrojeniowa (Polish Armaments Group). The dialogue was focused on WZL-1's capabilities in overhauling and modernizing Mi family helicopters with a particular input placed on Mi-17 and its adaptation to night operations.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Well, in Pakistan had an opportunity to have a conversation with a three-star officer. It was a muted conversation but got the following. JF-17 will number close to 325 this includes. Almost all of the single-seats will be converted to Block III plus JF-17B will be more or less be transformed into a Growler.  lot of investment is done into ISR. K-03 have gone thhrough a missive upgrade and. K-8 is being evaluated to replace C-130. In fact while in KHI at my parents residence near Mehran and Faisal saw several flights of K-8s, Hawk, Orlons, F-27, AW-139, Z-9 even Mi-35, ATR-72. In fact, saw the modified ATR- on July3. There are few Saab 2000s flying but without radars. One is Gray colored and one purely white.  PAF has also evaluated Su-35 but it is way too expensive to induct.Futre is FC-31 or fighter-65.

BTW, if one needs to view airwings of PN, PAF and even PAAC, proximity of Faisal, Mehran, and north Nazimabad are ideal places.

 Went o Multan at the airport saw FM-90 batteries besides new Islamabad airport has SPADA batteries when I went to Banazir airport way back in November also saw SPADA batteries.

 

Edited by H Khan
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Well, in Pakistan had an opportunity to have a conversation with a three-star officer. It was a muted conversation but got the following. JF-17 will number close to 325 this includes. Almost all of the single-seats will be converted to Block III plus JF-17B will be more or less be transformed into a Growler.  lot of investment is done into ISR. K-03 have gone thhrough a missive upgrade and. K-8 is being evaluated to replace C-130. In fact while in KHI at my parents residence near Mehran and Faisal saw several flights of K-8s, Hawk, Orlons, F-27, AW-139, Z-9 even Mi-35, ATR-72. In fact, saw the modified ATR- on July3. There are few Saab 2000s flying but without radars. One is Gray colored and one purely white.  PAF has also evaluated Su-35 but it is way too expensive to induct.Futre is FC-31 or fighter-65.

BTW, if one needs to view airwings of PN, PAF and even PAAC, proximity of Faisal, Mehran, and north Nazimabad are ideal places.

 Went o Multan at the airport saw FM-90 batteries besides new Islamabad airport has SPADA batteries when I went to Banazir airport way back in November also saw SPADA batteries.

 

K8 is a training aircraft. Shaanxi make the y8 which the zdk-03 is based on but this is an old aircraft type.  Shaanxi now produce the y9 which is comparable to the c130.  Is that what you are trying to say is being evaluated?

What is fighter-65, if you know or have you misstated?

 

Aziz

 

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Posted · Report post

Yes, you are right Aziz. I'd meant to write Y-8.

Again it was mutated answer regrading FC-31and that it is renamed as Fighter-65, again as I said we were in gathering and answers were muted.

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Posted · Report post

So FC-31 is being renamed and reworked as Fighter-65. This is the main part of Project Azm?

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So FC-31 is being renamed and reworked as Fighter-65. This is the main part of Project Azm?

​This could be deducted.

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Posted · Report post

You mean deduced, not deducted?  

 

Well 350 JF-17 Block 3 with 30-40 Fighter-65 will be a formidable Air Force. 

Glad to know about ZDK-03 being upgraded. It needs to come up to Erieye/GlobalEye standards. 

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Posted · Report post

Except for F-16 rest of the platforms work with K-03.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Last year PAF refused invitation to Red flage because USAF demanded PAF bring  JF-17 and K-03.

Edited by H Khan
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Posted (edited) · Report post

Only reason Y-8 makes sense as to have common platform with K-03, else its an old design and as Aziz said, Y-9 is the newest platform and new / latest Chinese Special Mission & Cargo  Aircraft are now based on Y-9

Edited by Rauf

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Posted · Report post

Only reason Y-8 makes sense as to have common platform with K-03, else its an old design and as Aziz said, Y-9 is the newest platform and new / latest Chinese Special Mission & Cargo  Aircraft are now based on Y-9

​From what I understand, KE-03 is housed in the Y-8F600.

According to Dr. Richard Fisher (link), the Y-8F600 is basically the Y-9 but with the Pratt & Whitney PW150 turboprop engine (instead of the WJ-6C turboprop powering the Y-9). Basically, they're the same aircraft (Y-8F600 and Y-9).

 

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Posted · Report post

K-03 has a pressurized capsule plugged inside the cabin that is not pressurized.

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Posted · Report post

325 JF-17 would mean that PAF now intends to replace rest of the F-7s and Mirage III/V with JF-17s and likely be two / three type Air force in the future.

This could also effectively indicate that PAF has given up on any future F-16s inductions as well, too bad that SU-35 doesn't fit in the budget, would have made great PN Cover assets.

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Posted · Report post

I would think PAF would get to 350 JF-17 after retirement of F-16s in the future. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

F-16 is not going anywhere for next 20 years until its replace is in place. Plus JF-17 is not its replacement.

Edited by H Khan

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Posted · Report post

Assalamoalaikum.

In my opinion, even without AESA radar, the F-16s are an excellent asset, specially for COIN, where air -to-ground capability is much more important. There are a lot of pieces going to be retired after induction of F-35s and there should be no worry for their maintainence atleast. Moreover, Aselsan may come up with its own package. If that comes true, perhaps we even don't SU-35s then. Just needs to be focused on project AZM then.

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Posted · Report post

F-16 is not going anywhere for next 20 years until its replace is in place. Plus JF-17 is not its replacement.

Well there are ~100 jf17 in service.  The production rate is 18pa.  At current production rates it will take another 14 or so years to have 350 in service.

 

Aziz

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