Jf-17 Related Discussion – Jan ~ Dec 2017

432 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

I just hope with new year we see JF 17B and IFR probe plus the first export orders getting delivered.

More importantly announcement regarding completion of AESA, HMS & IRST selection procedure.

Best Regards

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Posted · Report post

Jane’s is reporting that RSAF is looking to invest and procure 155 JF-17 Block III with wide array of Chinese, Russian, South African and British weapons. 

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Posted · Report post

Jane’s is reporting that RSAF is looking to invest and procure 155 JF-17 Block III with wide array of Chinese, Russian, South African and British weapons.

Would be interesting to see if China can clear the smokeless WS-13E for them. It's being tested from the FC-31 right now. BTW Jane's yanked the article!

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Posted · Report post

significant news but I would wait and see. Members probably remember the premature news about al khalid and the saudis too. But on the flip side they do have a requirement for an aircraft of the jf17's type. I dont know if someone could confirm but are they still flying the F5? I'm not sure if they ever had those in their inventory? Also the tornados are getting a bit long in the tooth with the brits looking to retire most of them. But then they have eurofighters to cover the mutlirole area? what do members think they will best utilise the JF17?

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Posted · Report post

If Saudia buy 155 JF-17S they are not just buying planes. They never just buy planes. They buy support.

 

1) They get to diversify and not just wedded to Euro/US systems and pressure

2) They will need thousands of PAF personnel to help set up maintain and train in Saudi locations. Maybe even stationing Pakstani JF-17 full time crews

3) Deal this size would cost about $10 Billion. That is a game changer for the Pakistani defence industry. We will be under immense pressure to bend to Saudi will

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Posted · Report post

If Saudia buy 155 JF-17S they are not just buying planes. They never just buy planes. They buy support.

1) They get to diversify and not just wedded to Euro/US systems and pressure

2) They will need thousands of PAF personnel to help set up maintain and train in Saudi locations. Maybe even stationing Pakstani JF-17 full time crews

3) Deal this size would cost about $10 Billion. That is a game changer for the Pakistani defence industry. We will be under immense pressure to bend to Saudi will

It's point 3 which worries me. This deal shouldn't happen to get pak on side. It should happen on merit alone. I hope pak doesn't acquiesce to demands which are contrary to its interests just to secure an arms deal, regardless of the sums involved.

ndad

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Posted · Report post

It's point 3 which worries me. This deal shouldn't happen to get pak on side. It should happen on merit alone. I hope pak doesn't acquiesce to demands which are contrary to its interests just to secure an arms deal, regardless of the sums involved.

ndad

 

Very few major arms deals are done on merit alone. If it was say South Korea building JF-17, do you think they would have even got a meeting with House of Saud?

 

Saudis pay attention to just three people in the world. US President, UK PM and Pak PM. Reasons for this are purely strategic. Even Russia and China do not get much of a look in.

 

This is one major factor in them possibly buying JF-17

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Posted · Report post

This is coming on the heels of the news about Raheel Sharif.  There is probably a lot going on.  KSA has financial worries and Pakistani weapons are definitely cheaper.  Outsourcing defence to Pakistan makes sense after their failed strategies in Syria and Yemen.

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Posted · Report post

but again why go for our fighters? are they worried that their past guarantors (UK,US) will soon be ditching them? therefore having something that cant be sanctioned may be the way to go? 

 

I think the house of saud is beginning its long decline towards a succession battle in future. And if we have stationed personel there be they retired or otherwise it would automatically mean that we would become involved. 

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Posted · Report post

but again why go for our fighters? are they worried that their past guarantors (UK,US) will soon be ditching them? therefore having something that cant be sanctioned may be the way to go? 

 

I think the house of saud is beginning its long decline towards a succession battle in future. And if we have stationed personel there be they retired or otherwise it would automatically mean that we would become involved. 

 

Think its fairly obvious that US/Saudi alliance will soon end. 

IbnAbdullah, SSAAD and Gaf like this

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Posted · Report post

Yes exactly.  If Saudis think strategic, they would bankroll the hell out of the JF-17 program.  They have to start thinking about indigenization and if that takes partnership with Pakistan, so be it.  Pretty soon, they will find themselves in the same situation as Pakistan ala 90s and in such a situation, having even a rudimentary (going by their expensive tastes) fighter aircraft program is a good bet.  If not the JF-17, then perhaps the Turkish FX program, but either way, Saudis need to start thinking about which Muslim countries have already built significant infra and R&D into aircraft manufacturing and support the program.

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Posted · Report post

Yes exactly.  If Saudis think strategic, they would bankroll the hell out of the JF-17 program.  They have to start thinking about indigenization and if that takes partnership with Pakistan, so be it.  Pretty soon, they will find themselves in the same situation as Pakistan ala 90s and in such a situation, having even a rudimentary (by their expensive tastes), fighter aircraft plan is a good bet.  If not the JF-17, then perhaps the Turkish FX program, but either way, Saudis need to start thinking about which Muslim countries have already built significant infra and R&D into aircraft manufacturing and support the program.

 

I think the prospect of the Saudis funding the TFX is very plausible. The Turks and Saudis have already begun a few programs between their respective defence industry vendors, e.g. Taqnia Group. I would begin keeping an eye on Algeria too, since they too - like the Saudis - are taking serious steps to build domestic defence production and support units. 

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Posted · Report post

Well, KSA has a requirement which is in the near future. The TFX is still in its conceptional phase

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Posted · Report post

Yes exactly.  If Saudis think strategic, they would bankroll the hell out of the JF-17 program.  They have to start thinking about indigenization and if that takes partnership with Pakistan, so be it.  Pretty soon, they will find themselves in the same situation as Pakistan ala 90s and in such a situation, having even a rudimentary (going by their expensive tastes) fighter aircraft program is a good bet.  If not the JF-17, then perhaps the Turkish FX program, but either way, Saudis need to start thinking about which Muslim countries have already built significant infra and R&D into aircraft manufacturing and support the program.

 

The advantage of going with JF-17 is the easy and quick path to a 5th gen fighter.  They are not getting F-35 any time soon.  While Turkey has made accommodation with Russia over Syria (leave the north to them), the Saudis will find it hard to embrace Russia and get T-50.

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Posted · Report post

I would disagree I think the Saudi and the Russians work together in OPEC plus two years ago Saudi, Ruskie and the Chinese were working on the modalities to unpeg their currencies with the dollar. This makes them sort of natural allies. 

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Posted · Report post

Yes, but Saudis (and Khaleejis) have large inventory of western aircraft.  If the US refuses to support them, Pakistan's experience of the 90's would come in handy.  Russians cannot do that as well as we can.

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Posted · Report post

UAE is fully under the Indian influence it seems Pakistan has lost it in UAE.

Emirates is also very much aligned with USA.

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Posted · Report post

The Indians dominate the UAE. Seems we are realigning towards Qatar who are rivals of the UAE sheikh's.

As for Saudi they may look to realign towards the Chinese once the west begins to ditch them..

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Posted · Report post

Arabs are no ones allies except themselves. UAE would ditch the Indians in a heart beat if it suits them.

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Posted · Report post

Really surprised by the posts about UAE being in bed with India. The ruler is currently on hunting trip in Pakistan, they are funding many projects and attend all most all our military training establishments. They certainly do not have this type of relationship with Indian

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