Pakistan Air Force Related Discussion: Jan ~ Dec 2017

463 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

I'll just say about the previous discussion that it can be very hard, or even impossible to detect a passive device in a complex equipment like a fighter jet that is only meant to be activated in certain situations, i.e. disabling a jet.

yasser, Fahad L and Gaf like this

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Posted · Report post

I heard the chinese took out these chips out of our early F-16's in late 90's and after that there were no crashes of F-16 for a while . I know only one CFIT in mid 2000's other that MashAllah all falcons are flying without a problem.

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Posted · Report post

Are we being serious here?......

 

 

That's what I though, pretty sire it was a tongue in cheek comment

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Posted · Report post

India has been trying hard to get a similar chip out of the Mig-21s without any luck. Should consult the Chinese!

yasser, Hasher, HRK and 1 other like this

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Posted · Report post

But everyone likes chips (or chipus). I heard even USAF can't find them hence so many F-16 crashes in their squadrons.

About buying F-16s from Israel, I don't see any use going that route when better ones are available from older US stock, or Europe. Besides these are probably block 10/155 being sold. They are the oldest F-16s flying anywhere in the world and definitely not worth spending a dime on (all geopolitics aside)

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Posted · Report post

Great news, also gives us a presence in West Africa. 

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Posted · Report post

What is the currency the prices are qouted in??

 

regards

 

Imran

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Posted · Report post

How is it that 2 MI-35s cost more than 3 JF-17??

A Khan likes this

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Posted · Report post

What is the currency the prices are qouted in??

regards

Imran

It appears to be Nigerian Nairas. 1 USD = 304 NGN. That is a total of $16.46 million only.

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Posted · Report post

Could be heavily subsidised offer to get the first deal done by PAC. The Myanmar deal is lead by the Chinese. Or could these be the older block 1s being sold out of PAF stock, hence very cheap?

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Posted · Report post

Assalamaoalukum

No one pays upfront cash. It's simply a first instalment and then more payments are made according to agreed schedule.

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Posted · Report post

It's a down payment, the proposed 2017 budget has $68m for platform acquisitions. With the EMB-314 not finalized, that money is for the JF-17 and Mi-35.

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Posted · Report post

Are we being serious here?......

 

I don't know about others, but I certainly am. After all we have learnt from Wikileaks about US capabilities with respect to Pakistan (hacked into PTCL, intercept of GHQ communications etc.), we're still doubting that they have the ability to remotely disable or degrade their own equipment if they want to? Have we read all of the source code used in the F-16? It would be foolish to dismiss such an idea.

Ulla, Abd-rehman Ali and asaracen like this

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Posted · Report post

Certainly not to be dismissive, but we also have to think about the technology which would allow for a remote kill-switch.  You will need some sort of a telemetry through a secret receiving terminal to be able to execute the kill switch.  Not saying its impossible, but in the realm of reality, with thousands of airframes in the use around the world, to me at least it seems unlikely.  What is more feasible and fairly effective would be to share the ELINT libraries for the radar frequencies etc. 

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There are all kinds of receiving antennas in an F-16.  Main radar, RWR, satellite comms, etc.  All inputs end up in avionics somewhere.  Without detailed knowledge of how the systems work, one can never know.  This technology is, of course, not shared by the end user.

 

Remember Angela Merkel's phone was hacked too.  And I think Francois Holland as well.

 

JF-17 Block 3 finally puts an end to this possibility.  We know what is in our planes.  Wonder why Israelis do their own avionics?

Uzair and asaracen like this

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Posted · Report post

There are all kinds of receiving antennas in an F-16.  Main radar, RWR, satellite comms, etc.  All inputs end up in avionics somewhere.  Without detailed knowledge of how the systems work, one can never know.  This technology is, of course, not shared by the end user.

 

Remember Angela Merkel's phone was hacked too.  And I think Francois Holland as well.

 

JF-17 Block 3 finally puts an end to this possibility.  We know what is in our planes.  Wonder why Israelis do their own avionics?

Israelis do their avionics on a limited basis and they do it to keep their military industrial complex relevant and the Americans allow them to do such things because of Congress' allegiance to all things Israel.  Otherwise all of the major subsystems in their aircraft are foreign built (case in point the recently received F-35s.)

 

Also if some of these things were possible then the entire fleet of Iranian F-14s and F-4s would have been rendered inoperable.  All the US had to do to achieve the same result was to cut off spares.  Pakistan would be in the same situation with the F-16s with the US not having to resort to expensive bugs and opaque kill switches.

 

Lastly, such things would receive such an extremely negative response from the market that the weapons manufacturers would not be able to sell their wares to even friendly countries.

A Khan, yasser and Ulla like this

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Posted · Report post

Certainly not to be dismissive, but we also have to think about the technology which would allow for a remote kill-switch.  You will need some sort of a telemetry through a secret receiving terminal to be able to execute the kill switch.  Not saying its impossible, but in the realm of reality, with thousands of airframes in the use around the world, to me at least it seems unlikely.  What is more feasible and fairly effective would be to share the ELINT libraries for the radar frequencies etc. 

 

All you have to do is add some new code to the flight computers or even some of comms modules on the F-16 that if certain signals are received, either performance of radars would degrade or some other combat systems would not work. Fairly easy to do and very hard to detect when you can't look at the source code. I would be surprised if the US doesn't do this with advanced military tech it sells overseas. There is no technical limitation for them.

 

And there is a world of difference between F-14's and F-4s and a Block 52 F-16 in terms of how tied in to technology they are. Much easier to have a "kill or degrade switch" in a Block 52 F-16.

SSAAD and asaracen like this

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Posted · Report post

Part of Israel's insistence on domestic radars and EW/ECM is that independence in these areas enables the IDF to maintain a qualitative edge over the Arabs in the electro-magnetic spectrum. All things held equal, the Israelis understand that they cannot maintain parity in terms of numbers or qualitative numbers - i.e. the Arabs will always be able to field more high-end fighters than the Israelis, and more pilots. In turn, Israel doubled down on investing in radars, EW/ECM, HMD/S, AAMs, PGBs, SOWs, etc. Mastery in these areas provides the Israelis a measure of breathing space.

asaracen, Aliusman, Uzair and 3 others like this

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Posted · Report post

Word is F-16 Block 52 deal could be back on the cards

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Word is F-16 Block 52 deal could be back on the cards

If there is an opportunity, then rather then 8, it should be 18 (or more) to complete the wing at Jacobabad and to also consider deploying assets to Bholari, mix of F-16s and JF-17s.

HRK likes this

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