Ali Mian

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  1. A Khan liked a post in a topic by Ali Mian in Corruption & Loot   
    No doubt a historical decision but the first of many steps.  Let's not let accountability stop here, corruption has become ingrained into societies blood. Much more has to be done to bring everyone to task. Also we need constitutional changes to ensure a system of checks and balances is restored and electoral reforms are made so the same incompetent people don't keep getting elected.  I am optimistic about the future.
  2. Ali Mian liked a post in a topic by SSAAD in Corruption & Loot   
    ARMalik,
    The PM should have stepped down himself just by realizing how much controversy he was bringing to the office of the PM.  The problem in our country is that unless someone is pushed out of office for any wrong doing with a kick to the arse, they will never leave of their own volition.  This is our badqismati that despite a unanimous Supreme Court decision, PML-N is suggesting they would still contest the decision and suggesting that the SC is not right (For Godsake, its a 5-0 decision at a time when by any historical yardstick, the SCP is the most independent it has ever been!)  I simply understand that if I show 200,000 in my account, I should have a legitimate trail to where the 200,000 came from.  This basic information is missing in the case of NS and his family's wealth.
    People can say all they want that "the establishment" is behind this, but the evidence is in front of the layperson.   Had the SC not given this judgement, it would have been another case of "business as usual".
    I was a Musharraf supporter but when PML-N came, I actually agreed with some of their policies for as long as it was good for Pakistan.  In this case, I am not happy to see a sitting PM get removed, however for the sake of this nation, this had to be the right step.  Governments in first world countries like SK, Japan etc. are constantly getting reshuffled for issues associated with the reputation of the PM, in our case the evidence is damning and the defence is shabby at best.  So how can a thinking man not realize the corruption in amassing all this wealth?
    If we are sincere to Pakistan, then we would appreciate this decision for Pakistan's sake.  I have no problem if Shahbaz Sharif is nominated as the PM (if that were possible), so the issue is not even of not liking PML-N etc.  Its simply that NS is seriously damaged goods with a massive issue of personal integrity.  How much longer is Pakistan to suffer under the rule of those who are personally corrupt?  The next door chai wala (I am only kidding as he is more honest and upright than many of our politicians) does not have such a blemish on his person, so why should we allow the PM of Pakistan to carry on while such massive issues of dishonest financial conduct swirl around him?
  3. Ali Mian liked a post in a topic by ndad in Pakistan Economy   
    It really is desperate for PML and it's darbaris. They are willing to destroy/malign and slander every institution to protect NS, regardless of the damage they do. What's really Surprising is that the they don't say 'we're not corrupt', rather its 'everyone is corrupt'. It's also clear that they seem to link accountability to a attack on democracy and this narrative is challenged by the likes of PTI
    As for Imran khan, he may be naive but he's not a thief. That is undeniable. 
    ndad
  4. Ali Mian liked a post in a topic by mominkhan in Corruption & Loot   
    From all appearances, it should be so.  Army's first operation was Zarb-e-Azb, which as the name indicates, was a military campaign.  Now the operation is called Radd-ul-fasaad.  Well the fasaadis are these politicians.  Instead of martial law, Army has figured out a formula for getting rid of them.
    I can only hope and pray that this will happen.
  5. Ali Mian liked a post in a topic by A Khan in Ringside: Round VII   
    What a despicable act by the PkMAP MPA, and pathetic by the police to register the case against unknown persons!! I hope the family of this policeman get justice.
     
    PkMAP lawmaker runs over policeman in Quetta
    https://tribune.com.pk/story/1442700/pkmap-lawmaker-runs-policeman-quetta/
  6. H Khan liked a post in a topic by Ali Mian in UAE Machinations out in the open   
    Peoples Republic of Pakistan
  7. IbnAbdullah liked a post in a topic by Ali Mian in Ringside: Round VII   
    NS will never resign willingly. The SC decision is a complete copout.
  8. Gaf liked a post in a topic by Ali Mian in Pakistan's Foreign Policy   
    Even more reason for Pakistan to accelerate fencing the border with Afghanistan with 24/7 monitoring and effective control over who and what crosses into Pakistan.
  9. Gaf liked a post in a topic by Ali Mian in Donald Trump Presidency   
    The question is how many Pakistanis are there in Congress, senate or politics in general. We are quick to criticize but Why dont our people step up?
  10. Syed Ali liked a post in a topic by Ali Mian in Donald Trump Presidency   
    The question is how many Pakistanis are there in Congress, senate or politics in general. We are quick to criticize but Why dont our people step up?
  11. A Khan liked a post in a topic by Ali Mian in Donald Trump Presidency   
    To play Devils advocate for a second, will Americans be willing to pay higer prices for consumer products given higer wages and production costs in the U.S as compared to China? People have gotten used to cheap products. For some industries where there is significant automation there should be not much impact on prices but for most consumer products there will be.

    I agree with Harris Khan that rebuilding infrastructure will create lots of jobs and is really needed. But doing so by added debt financing will have other long term problems plus these jobs are not permanent jobs.

    Basically its easy to say that jobs will be brought back but no so easy to implement. Increasing tarriffs or giving tax breaks alone is not sufficient and only a very short term solution. Also as Gaf said, what about middle class jobs like IT and financial services? These jobs are easier to bring back, but most of Trump's voter base does not fall into this category. Lets see what policies are put in place. From what is being said it sounds like old protectionist policies that have proven to fail in the long run. Apart from just words, lets see what actual policy the new administration puts in place.
  12. HRK liked a post in a topic by Ali Mian in Pakistan Air Force Related Discussion: Jan ~ Dec 2017   
    When it comes to Pakistan supporting the Taliban and not doing enough, we should use Trumps own words...we will build a wall along the border with Afghanistan and you Mr. Trump will pay for it.
  13. Ulla liked a post in a topic by Ali Mian in Pakistan Air Force Related Discussion: Jan ~ Dec 2017   
    When it comes to Pakistan supporting the Taliban and not doing enough, we should use Trumps own words...we will build a wall along the border with Afghanistan and you Mr. Trump will pay for it.
  14. H Rehman liked a post in a topic by Ali Mian in Pakistan Air Force Related Discussion: Jan ~ Dec 2017   
    When it comes to Pakistan supporting the Taliban and not doing enough, we should use Trumps own words...we will build a wall along the border with Afghanistan and you Mr. Trump will pay for it.
  15. Zahidr liked a post in a topic by Ali Mian in Pakistan Navy Related Discussion – Jan ~ Dec 2016   
    Being international waters changes things. It would have been interesting had the PN done what Zeeshan suggested, very satisfying indeed. Though what would have been just as good would be allow it deep into our territorial waters and force a surrender. Though I doubt the Indians would be willing to go deep into our territory anyways.
  16. Uzair liked a post in a topic by Ali Mian in Terrorism Related News & Discussion ~ 2016   

    Salaam,

    I believe this has been discussed/considered before. To take a few miles of Afghan territory along the border and create a buffer zone. The problem with doing so was as follows:

    1. International condemnation of Pakistan essentially annexing Afghan territory.
    2. Blow back from Afghans themselves, worsening relations.
    3. Cost of doing so and maintaining a hold on that territory.
    4. Loss of moral high ground vis a vis Kashmir and Palestine issues. India would claim we are doing the same thing i Afghanistan what we accuse them of doing in Kashmir

    Ultimately the costs outweigh the benefits. With that said, we still need to fence and mine our side of the Border with Afghanistan.
  17. Usman S. liked a post in a topic by Ali Mian in Musharraf Supporters   
    SSAAD,
     
    Let me try to answer your questions, these will be my final comments on this topic:
     
     
    “I hear mention of the Presidential system.  Who will bring that about?
    Ultimately it will have to be the army directly or indirectly from behind the scenes.  
     
    Does the military and the bureaucracy support such a change?
    A resounding YES.  The army has and does support the Presidential system.  People wrongly think that military leaders have assumed the Presidency to become all powerful dictators. Though part of this may be true, the reality is that the army believes in unity of command, a system of clear decision making and effective/strong administration with checks and balances.  The presidential system provides all this and is best suited in Pakistan’s case.  Also, did you know that Quaid-e-Azam himself preferred a Presidential system for Pakistan? Evidence of this is available, written by his own hand in his personal diary. A fact that is oft ignored and rarely mentioned by any of our politicians who harp on about the supremacy of the 1973 constitution. Also there is conversation on record between the Quaid-e-Azam and Mountbatten, in which the latter asked Quaid-e-Azam why he was choosing to be Governor General and not Prime Minister of Pakistan (remember Mountbatten fully expected to be the Governor of Pakistan as he was of India).  Mountbatten reminded Quaid-e-Azam that in a parliamentary system the power rested with the PM and the Governor General was a ceremonial position, to which Quaid-e-Azam replied something to the effect that in Pakistan the PM will do as he ordered.
     
    Are the other political parties in support of it (I can guarantee most of them will be against it because it does away with opportunities for haraam khori to a great extent but never completely.)
    Yes you are correct and this has been mentioned by most that NO political party will agree to a Presidential system as it takes away their ability to rule unquestioned, without accountability and essentially as elected dictators – free to loot, plunder and do as they wish.  The biggest weakness of the parliamentary system is that it lacks any checks or balances and relies upon the good will, moral character and honesty of the members of parliament/opposition to keep the government in check by asking questions and openly challenging its decisions in an open forum (i.e parliament).  Unfortunately none of our politicians possess any of these characteristics.  Lets also remember here how the parliamentary system was created in Britain initially by the Monarchy to keep the nobles and land owning elites (aka waderas and Chaudhries of the time) in check by allowing them to counsel the King. The nobility felt they had a special because they were part of the Kings Counsel (parliament) while the King kept a close eye on them to ensure none were plotting against him.  In time as civil wars occurred, the King gave up more and more powers to parliament to retain his position starting with the power to levy taxes without parliaments approval etc.  My point is that the parliamentary system developed in Britain in circumstances unique to Britain over hundreds of years. It has been transplanted in many countries who have modified to their circumstances as they should but it has not worked well every where including Pakistan. That is why Quaid-e-Azam said, the parliamentary system has worked well in Britain but no where else.
     
    So if this debate is a theoretical ex. I would say yes lets give the Presidential system a try.  In reality the chances of that happening are essentially nil and this is why I say, that marti (dying), raingti (crawling), jamhooriat is what we have and we should try to fix it incrementally instead of wanting some utopian system that will never come.
    This debate is not theoretical but a real one and attention needs to be paid to it.  Our politicians will not pay attention to it or allow attention to be paid to it because it is not in their interest to have any changes to the system as has previously been discussed.  The chances of changing to a Presidential system are not essentially NIL, it may appear that way because under the current circumstances no political party will make that change, but there is an increasing understanding and desire among intellectuals that this change occur. Trying to incrementally fix a ringti, dying jamhooriat is actually idealistic, unrealistic thinking not wanting to replace it.  If someone has Cancer, medication can only do so much, at some point surgery is required. If you have old, sick, dying horse with a broken leg it may be more merciful to just shoot it.  To think that jambooriat will evolve in Pakistan like it did in England is sheer ignorance.  Democracy evolved in England or other western countries over hundreds of years in a very very different world from today, under different social, cultural, economic and political circumstances.  As the world charges ahead and develops economically, technically and socially we cannot sit around on the sidelines while we incrementally evolve our system, hoping that with time people will see our politicians for what they truly are and chose better leaders or that eventually corruption will get less. These are utopian thoughts and false hopes. If your child puts his hand in a hot oven, you run and try to stop him, not say let him burn his hand he will not do it again next time. Our public is like that child that has burnt its hand many time but yet to learn its lesson.
     
    Its almost the same as the favourite pass time of us Pakistanis which is hoping and asking for "aik achaa leader".  Kahaan say ayega woh achaa leader when for the past 6 decades we have been dirtying the country and destroying everything good in it?  It will take a few achaay, a few average leaders and some bastards (I mean career politicians) over many more decades to get this country right.
    Waiting for a messiah or savior is not unique to Pakistan but common to many societies. What this indicates though is that society is morally and ethically bankrupt.  They do not have the courage, willingness or desire to standup for what is right and speak up against what is wrong. Does that sound familiar? Sounds like society in Pakistan doesn’t it? I hate the phrase often used in Pakistan, oh yahaan to aisa hi hota hai (that’s just how things are here).  Basically people have accepted their situation and given up hope, no one is willing to do anything.  They expect someone else to come and do the work for them, fix the country, build hospitals, roads, schools etc but try asking the public to pay taxes, how many actually do?   No doubt the country has been drifting for the past 6 decades, we have had some good leaders whose efforts have been undermined the majority not so good leaders for their own ambitions to build factories, properties, mansions in Europe etc etc.  You may be willing to wait a few more decades for a few good, bad and average leaders to sort things out in Pakistan but I am not sure Pakistan can wait that long.  If we look at the past six decades and basically propose things continue the way you suggest for a few more decades I shudder to think where the country will be when it has twice the population as today, fewer resources to feed those people, more debt and an unpredictable global environment where there are no true alliances or loyalties.
     
    So with all that said, what is the solution? Yes we need a strong Presidential system, we could have had that in the past but opportunities were missed and mistakes were made and such a system was not fully implemented as it should have for individuals personal gains. Will the politicians support it, a few may but the majority wont. So how will this change come? It has to come from the top and like it or not the army will have to lead the struggle. They don’t have to do so by a direct take over, but there are means of doing so from behind the scenes.  Trust me, if they wanted to they can do so tomorrow and have it done by the politicians own hands all fully under legal and constitutional cover, it’s a matter of when their patience finally ends.  Politicians have proven that they have no desire to give up their shenanigans or do what is right for the country. So some arm twisting is necessary.  Also, a second option is that a true political alternative needs to be presented, a new political party that has a clear platform of changing the political system to a presidential system (and I don’t mean Imran Khan here…I think he truly lacks the political understanding/depth or realizes the need for such change).  A party that will bring new and educated people to the front and is not another hodge podge of existing politicians and defectors/lotas. A party that will bring awareness to people of the parliamentary dictatorship that exists, the benefits of a Presidential system and remove the falsehood created by politicians that a Presidential system equals dictatorship.  You may say well this is utopian thoughts again, if only this were to happen. Well, I am more hopeful that this will happen rather than jamhooriat evolve over a few decades.  I hope and pray that maybe just maybe if we are lucky, General Raheel takes on this challenge after he retires as he commands the respect and loyalty of the nation. If he were to call for this change the nation will follow. Lets see what the coming days and years bring. Though sad to see the ongoing loot, corruption and mismanagement I am optimistic that positive change will come. 
  18. SSAAD liked a post in a topic by Ali Mian in Musharraf Supporters   
    SSAAD,
     
    Let me try to answer your questions, these will be my final comments on this topic:
     
     
    “I hear mention of the Presidential system.  Who will bring that about?
    Ultimately it will have to be the army directly or indirectly from behind the scenes.  
     
    Does the military and the bureaucracy support such a change?
    A resounding YES.  The army has and does support the Presidential system.  People wrongly think that military leaders have assumed the Presidency to become all powerful dictators. Though part of this may be true, the reality is that the army believes in unity of command, a system of clear decision making and effective/strong administration with checks and balances.  The presidential system provides all this and is best suited in Pakistan’s case.  Also, did you know that Quaid-e-Azam himself preferred a Presidential system for Pakistan? Evidence of this is available, written by his own hand in his personal diary. A fact that is oft ignored and rarely mentioned by any of our politicians who harp on about the supremacy of the 1973 constitution. Also there is conversation on record between the Quaid-e-Azam and Mountbatten, in which the latter asked Quaid-e-Azam why he was choosing to be Governor General and not Prime Minister of Pakistan (remember Mountbatten fully expected to be the Governor of Pakistan as he was of India).  Mountbatten reminded Quaid-e-Azam that in a parliamentary system the power rested with the PM and the Governor General was a ceremonial position, to which Quaid-e-Azam replied something to the effect that in Pakistan the PM will do as he ordered.
     
    Are the other political parties in support of it (I can guarantee most of them will be against it because it does away with opportunities for haraam khori to a great extent but never completely.)
    Yes you are correct and this has been mentioned by most that NO political party will agree to a Presidential system as it takes away their ability to rule unquestioned, without accountability and essentially as elected dictators – free to loot, plunder and do as they wish.  The biggest weakness of the parliamentary system is that it lacks any checks or balances and relies upon the good will, moral character and honesty of the members of parliament/opposition to keep the government in check by asking questions and openly challenging its decisions in an open forum (i.e parliament).  Unfortunately none of our politicians possess any of these characteristics.  Lets also remember here how the parliamentary system was created in Britain initially by the Monarchy to keep the nobles and land owning elites (aka waderas and Chaudhries of the time) in check by allowing them to counsel the King. The nobility felt they had a special because they were part of the Kings Counsel (parliament) while the King kept a close eye on them to ensure none were plotting against him.  In time as civil wars occurred, the King gave up more and more powers to parliament to retain his position starting with the power to levy taxes without parliaments approval etc.  My point is that the parliamentary system developed in Britain in circumstances unique to Britain over hundreds of years. It has been transplanted in many countries who have modified to their circumstances as they should but it has not worked well every where including Pakistan. That is why Quaid-e-Azam said, the parliamentary system has worked well in Britain but no where else.
     
    So if this debate is a theoretical ex. I would say yes lets give the Presidential system a try.  In reality the chances of that happening are essentially nil and this is why I say, that marti (dying), raingti (crawling), jamhooriat is what we have and we should try to fix it incrementally instead of wanting some utopian system that will never come.
    This debate is not theoretical but a real one and attention needs to be paid to it.  Our politicians will not pay attention to it or allow attention to be paid to it because it is not in their interest to have any changes to the system as has previously been discussed.  The chances of changing to a Presidential system are not essentially NIL, it may appear that way because under the current circumstances no political party will make that change, but there is an increasing understanding and desire among intellectuals that this change occur. Trying to incrementally fix a ringti, dying jamhooriat is actually idealistic, unrealistic thinking not wanting to replace it.  If someone has Cancer, medication can only do so much, at some point surgery is required. If you have old, sick, dying horse with a broken leg it may be more merciful to just shoot it.  To think that jambooriat will evolve in Pakistan like it did in England is sheer ignorance.  Democracy evolved in England or other western countries over hundreds of years in a very very different world from today, under different social, cultural, economic and political circumstances.  As the world charges ahead and develops economically, technically and socially we cannot sit around on the sidelines while we incrementally evolve our system, hoping that with time people will see our politicians for what they truly are and chose better leaders or that eventually corruption will get less. These are utopian thoughts and false hopes. If your child puts his hand in a hot oven, you run and try to stop him, not say let him burn his hand he will not do it again next time. Our public is like that child that has burnt its hand many time but yet to learn its lesson.
     
    Its almost the same as the favourite pass time of us Pakistanis which is hoping and asking for "aik achaa leader".  Kahaan say ayega woh achaa leader when for the past 6 decades we have been dirtying the country and destroying everything good in it?  It will take a few achaay, a few average leaders and some bastards (I mean career politicians) over many more decades to get this country right.
    Waiting for a messiah or savior is not unique to Pakistan but common to many societies. What this indicates though is that society is morally and ethically bankrupt.  They do not have the courage, willingness or desire to standup for what is right and speak up against what is wrong. Does that sound familiar? Sounds like society in Pakistan doesn’t it? I hate the phrase often used in Pakistan, oh yahaan to aisa hi hota hai (that’s just how things are here).  Basically people have accepted their situation and given up hope, no one is willing to do anything.  They expect someone else to come and do the work for them, fix the country, build hospitals, roads, schools etc but try asking the public to pay taxes, how many actually do?   No doubt the country has been drifting for the past 6 decades, we have had some good leaders whose efforts have been undermined the majority not so good leaders for their own ambitions to build factories, properties, mansions in Europe etc etc.  You may be willing to wait a few more decades for a few good, bad and average leaders to sort things out in Pakistan but I am not sure Pakistan can wait that long.  If we look at the past six decades and basically propose things continue the way you suggest for a few more decades I shudder to think where the country will be when it has twice the population as today, fewer resources to feed those people, more debt and an unpredictable global environment where there are no true alliances or loyalties.
     
    So with all that said, what is the solution? Yes we need a strong Presidential system, we could have had that in the past but opportunities were missed and mistakes were made and such a system was not fully implemented as it should have for individuals personal gains. Will the politicians support it, a few may but the majority wont. So how will this change come? It has to come from the top and like it or not the army will have to lead the struggle. They don’t have to do so by a direct take over, but there are means of doing so from behind the scenes.  Trust me, if they wanted to they can do so tomorrow and have it done by the politicians own hands all fully under legal and constitutional cover, it’s a matter of when their patience finally ends.  Politicians have proven that they have no desire to give up their shenanigans or do what is right for the country. So some arm twisting is necessary.  Also, a second option is that a true political alternative needs to be presented, a new political party that has a clear platform of changing the political system to a presidential system (and I don’t mean Imran Khan here…I think he truly lacks the political understanding/depth or realizes the need for such change).  A party that will bring new and educated people to the front and is not another hodge podge of existing politicians and defectors/lotas. A party that will bring awareness to people of the parliamentary dictatorship that exists, the benefits of a Presidential system and remove the falsehood created by politicians that a Presidential system equals dictatorship.  You may say well this is utopian thoughts again, if only this were to happen. Well, I am more hopeful that this will happen rather than jamhooriat evolve over a few decades.  I hope and pray that maybe just maybe if we are lucky, General Raheel takes on this challenge after he retires as he commands the respect and loyalty of the nation. If he were to call for this change the nation will follow. Lets see what the coming days and years bring. Though sad to see the ongoing loot, corruption and mismanagement I am optimistic that positive change will come. 
  19. yusufy liked a post in a topic by Ali Mian in Musharraf Supporters   
    We need a system of checks and balances. A separation of executive and legislative functions. A proportional representation electoral system. Having election after election under the present system will not change anything or improve peoples lives. It simply musical chairs among the corrupt taking turns to loot and plunder.

    Unfortunately our population is mostly illiterate and dont have the mindset or knowledge to understand differences in policy and its effect on the country. All they understand is promises made to put food on their tables, even if that means mortgaging the country to the hilt. People continue to vote on ethnic loyalties and not issues or policy platforms. When your dealing with a society like that, you cant assume that they will just learn over time. In the process, the country will be destroyed. So, you put in a system that ensures the scum stays out and strong rules are in place to ensure good governance. We cannot just rely on our awam to elect good people and hope change will come in time. That's why the politicians love the current form of jamhooriat because they know they will keep coming back to power in one capacity or another.
  20. mominkhan liked a post in a topic by Ali Mian in Pakistan Navy Related Discussion – Jan ~ Dec 2016   
    The more I think and read about it I have a feeling that we may see the PAF getting the F-31 to counter the Rafale. The PAF may not say much about it and be allusive but I think that is where they are heading.
  21. Zahidr liked a post in a topic by Ali Mian in Pakistan Air Force Related Discussion: Jan ~ Dec 2016   
    I think buying Grippen or EF is not likely at this time given the costs and political environment. Perhaps in the long term as PAF seem to want to maintain one western type for obvious reasons.

    In the short ti medium term I think its going to be a Chinese option. Though there is talk about the SU35, I am kind of skeptical of it. No doubt 40-50 of these would be a great addition but are the Russians really game? IMHO, the most realistic option is the J11D with Russian engines. If I were PAF I would be working out a license agreement with the Russians to get these. Now if the Russians in the process want to sweeten the deal and offer SU35 that makes sense then who am I to argue.
  22. Ulla liked a post in a topic by Ali Mian in Pakistan Air Force Related Discussion: Jan ~ Dec 2016   
    I think buying Grippen or EF is not likely at this time given the costs and political environment. Perhaps in the long term as PAF seem to want to maintain one western type for obvious reasons.

    In the short ti medium term I think its going to be a Chinese option. Though there is talk about the SU35, I am kind of skeptical of it. No doubt 40-50 of these would be a great addition but are the Russians really game? IMHO, the most realistic option is the J11D with Russian engines. If I were PAF I would be working out a license agreement with the Russians to get these. Now if the Russians in the process want to sweeten the deal and offer SU35 that makes sense then who am I to argue.
  23. Awais_Munawar liked a post in a topic by Ali Mian in India-Pak Tensions & Border Violations   
    The Indians are counting on international pressure to restrain Pakistan from retaliating. With Nawaz Sharif at the helm, they are hoping that they can make some sort of cross border raid and the Americans will come running and pressure Pakistan not to escalate the conflict and NS will cave like he did during Kargil.
  24. Ali Mian liked a post in a topic by Ulla in India-Pak Tensions & Border Violations   
     
    Politically Zia did handel the indians very well, by shaking the Hand of Rajiv Gandi and feet with the other Hand the Sikh revolt in indian Punjab.
     
    “Before departure for Chennai, General Ziaul Haq, while saying goodbye to Gandhi said, ‘Mr Rajiv, you want to attack Pakistan, do it. But keep in mind that this world will forget Halaku Khan and Changez Khan and will remember only Ziaul Haq and Rajiv Gandhi, because this will not be a conventional war but a nuclear war. In this situation, Pakistan might be completely destroyed, but Muslims will still be there in the world; but with the destruction of India, Hinduism will vanish from the face of this earth.’”
    Gen Zia had left Rajiv shaken.
  25. Ulla liked a post in a topic by Ali Mian in India-Pak Tensions & Border Violations   
    Forget militarily, we can deal with them politically and as they say patloon haath mein pakarwadeen only if we had the right political leadership. With that said, India is dreaming if they think they can take some military action and not get hit back. Their assumption is that they will hit us and the because of our so called bad image the international community will just look away and will restrain us from retaliating.